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BBC One Pres problems

(February 2005)

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DA
Dan Founding member
BBC TV Centre posted:
What exactly did they move that makes it so difficult to revert back to the old system? Confused


It's a completely new (to BBC ONE and BBC TWO) automation system, in a different building, on a different site, using different equipment. The old area is already partially dismantled, and even if they could technically move back they wouldn't be able to as it would hold up the sale of BBC Broadcast which is expected to be completed in the next six months.
NG
noggin Founding member
Inspector Sands posted:
Marcus posted:
The BBC never learns from its mistakes of the past. News24 was launched with unstable software and was a laughing stock inside and outside the industry. It took about four years for it to recover from that launch.

Now BBC1 seams to be following the example.


But all automation software is unstable at the start and News 24 would have been problematic no matter what they used as it was a totally new venture. I was around when the last playout area was new and then when it was upgraded.... and there were problems. The place I work now launched with a brand new system and there were problems, but now everything is working pretty well.

You can't wait till everything is 100% until you go on air with these things there just isn't the time. At some point you have to put it on air and go with it. The good news is that with every breakdown and problem they'll learn for next time and go towards tweaking the system


Yep - but in the case of the launch of News 24 the first, even slightly working, version of the automation software arrived on the Saturday, with the channel launching on the Sunday...
NG
noggin Founding member
BBC TV Centre posted:
Why do they not iron the bugs out in the software before putting it into a production environment?


Put very simply - the people who develop and write the software don't have a production background. They can't find the bugs until the software is used "in anger"

Quite often bugs only appear when "end users" actually try and do their jobs with the systems. When the system fails, you then get a developer stand their and scratch his head and go "But why would you want to do it that way?" and demonstrate their total lack of comprehension of the production process.

I speak as someone who has been both a developer of said systems (or similar) and who has also broken many of them as an end user (on-air a number of times)
NG
noggin Founding member
marksi posted:
Quote:
Or did they just put BBC One back into TVC for Saturday night? I don't know if its all BBC One and Two has moved to the BC or whether there is still some stuff coming from TVC - perhaps someone knows. I think it's more the system than the people sometimes with the BBC Three faults - it just doesn't seem very stable.


All BBC TV channels now operate from the Broadcast Centre. UKTV remains in TVC for a little while yet.


Nothing to do with the fact that a breakdown on UKTV would cost money (in lost advertising revenue?).... Oh no... I'm sure that can't be the reason...
NG
noggin Founding member
Inspector Sands posted:
NickyS posted:
[
Or did they just put BBC One back into TVC for Saturday night? I don't know if its all BBC One and Two has moved to the BC or whether there is still some stuff coming from TVC - perhaps someone knows. I think it's more the system than the people sometimes with the BBC Three faults - it just doesn't seem very stable.


It's all coming from the new place. AIUI they can't move back (even if they could the practical logistics of doing so would be complex)

All systems like that are unstable at first. It's only when it settles in, gets tweaked and the people using and maintaining it get used to its little quirks (of which there can often be many!). The thing is that you can't iron out all the problems before going live - it tales too long, maybe a year or so


AIUI there are still facilities in place for BBC One and Two to return to TVC - or there were a few weeks ago. The two areas have been running in tandem for a couple of months AIUI.
NG
noggin Founding member
Marcus posted:
The BBC never learns from its mistakes of the past. News24 was launched with unstable software and was a laughing stock inside and outside the industry. It took about four years for it to recover from that launch.

Now BBC1 seams to be following the example.


Odd that the systems come from the same company...
DA
Dan Founding member
noggin posted:
AIUI there are still facilities in place for BBC One and Two to return to TVC - or there were a few weeks ago. The two areas have been running in tandem for a couple of months AIUI.


I believe that period has now finished, noggin - and that some of the equipment is making its way to another major UK broadcaster that uses Pro-bel automation.

AIUI, the plan from the start of the move of BBC ONE and BBC TWO was not to go back unless there were absolutely catastrophic problems, because - as you say in your other post - bugs only really get ironed out while the system is being used 'in anger'.
NG
noggin Founding member
Dan posted:
noggin posted:
AIUI there are still facilities in place for BBC One and Two to return to TVC - or there were a few weeks ago. The two areas have been running in tandem for a couple of months AIUI.


I believe that period has now finished, noggin - and that some of the equipment is making its way to another major UK broadcaster that uses Pro-bel automation.

AIUI, the plan from the start of the move of BBC ONE and BBC TWO was not to go back unless there were absolutely catastrophic problems, because - as you say in your other post - bugs only really get ironed out while the system is being used 'in anger'.


Yep - and bugs don't mean the same thing to the same people.

There are "bugs" in the systems - where you tell it do something and it falls over, but there can also be system failings, where the equipment is installed and commissioned to do one thing, but then you ask it do another and it can't...

You also have the issues of changes in working practices meaning people are working in new ways in new areas.
NG
noggin Founding member
Dan posted:

I believe that period has now finished, noggin - and that some of the equipment is making its way to another major UK broadcaster that uses Pro-bel automation.


Will that be a number between 3 and 5?
JV
James Vertigan Founding member
Have the CD/Minidisc players made their way over to the new Broadcast Centre? There wasn't any music on the Football Focus fault I spotted, so was just wondering...
JE
Jenny Founding member
noggin posted:
Dan posted:

I believe that period has now finished, noggin - and that some of the equipment is making its way to another major UK broadcaster that uses Pro-bel automation.


Will that be a number between 3 and 5?


Ah, good old Pi TV.
MA
marksi
Dan posted:
noggin posted:
AIUI there are still facilities in place for BBC One and Two to return to TVC - or there were a few weeks ago. The two areas have been running in tandem for a couple of months AIUI.


I believe that period has now finished, noggin - and that some of the equipment is making its way to another major UK broadcaster that uses Pro-bel automation.


And some of it is heading to other parts of the BBC as spares. Wink

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