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BBC One HD still can't broadcast regional news in England.

In 2017! Very Disappointing. (January 2017)

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TM
tmorgan96
I definitely know Fox US fires trigger pings to affiliates for things such as local watermarking.


Yes - Fox is the odd-one-out in the US markets as it provides affiliates with a pre-encoded 'network' feed rather than a high bitrate, high quality mezzanine 'contribution quality' feed. The Fox stations all have 'splicers' installed.

These splicers take the pre-encoded MPEG2 network feed, and do a very clever partial decode to insert a local bug, by decoding just the macroblocks in the stream that need to be decoded and re-encoded to do so. The rest of the picture just passes straight through and is not decoded and recoded (avoiding further compression artefacts) This also allows Fox to tightly handle 5.1 Dolby audio on their network shows I believe - which some other networks historically struggled with (or more accurately their local stations did)

The Fox splicer also has an MPEG2 encoder for local material played out from the station (commercials, local news etc.) which is synchronised to the splicer's incoming network feed, allowing clean junctions to and from network. This gives Fox tighter control, mandates a uniform bug insertion system that can be remotely triggered etc.

This system was introduced when Fox switched from running a 480i 16:9 SD network feed - which was encoded at the local stations in 480p - and introduced 720p HD. (Fox - unlike ABC, NBC and CBS didn't initially run HD on digital OTA. Their 480p was 'good enough' for them)

This was the situation a few years ago - I think Fox may have since upgraded their splicer tech further.

ABC, CBS and NBC work differently and distribute a higher quality network feed BUT this is then permanently decoded to baseband video and then re-encoded after playout master control in each station. This requires more equipement and personnel than Fox stations I believe.

Bingo, I've had it explained to me before and it's gone in one ear and out the other, however your explanation is roughly what I've heard previously. It's seriously impressive tech.


What I always wonder is how local stations seamlessly merge their local news 'previews' into a national network ECP, along the lines of the preview BBC One viewers are treated to at 5:56pm before the Six. I know local NBC affiliates have been doing that since the late 90s, and it always looks so slick.
RK
Rkolsen
I definitely know Fox US fires trigger pings to affiliates for things such as local watermarking.


Yes - Fox is the odd-one-out in the US markets as it provides affiliates with a pre-encoded 'network' feed rather than a high bitrate, high quality mezzanine 'contribution quality' feed. The Fox stations all have 'splicers' installed.

These splicers take the pre-encoded MPEG2 network feed, and do a very clever partial decode to insert a local bug, by decoding just the macroblocks in the stream that need to be decoded and re-encoded to do so. The rest of the picture just passes straight through and is not decoded and recoded (avoiding further compression artefacts) This also allows Fox to tightly handle 5.1 Dolby audio on their network shows I believe - which some other networks historically struggled with (or more accurately their local stations did)

The Fox splicer also has an MPEG2 encoder for local material played out from the station (commercials, local news etc.) which is synchronised to the splicer's incoming network feed, allowing clean junctions to and from network. This gives Fox tighter control, mandates a uniform bug insertion system that can be remotely triggered etc.

This system was introduced when Fox switched from running a 480i 16:9 SD network feed - which was encoded at the local stations in 480p - and introduced 720p HD. (Fox - unlike ABC, NBC and CBS didn't initially run HD on digital OTA. Their 480p was 'good enough' for them)

This was the situation a few years ago - I think Fox may have since upgraded their splicer tech further.

ABC, CBS and NBC work differently and distribute a higher quality network feed BUT this is then permanently decoded to baseband video and then re-encoded after playout master control in each station. This requires more equipement and personnel than Fox stations I believe.

Bingo, I've had it explained to me before and it's gone in one ear and out the other, however your explanation is roughly what I've heard previously. It's seriously impressive tech.


What I always wonder is how local stations seamlessly merge their local news 'previews' into a national network ECP, along the lines of the preview BBC One viewers are treated to at 5:56pm before the Six. I know local NBC affiliates have been doing that since the late 90s, and it always looks so slick.

You can see the Fox Splicer equipment details at www.hdrollout.com

NBC distributes their signal as a 50 Mbps MPEG-2 signal. Per the public affiliation agreements on the FCC website they expect it to average around 12-15Mbps out of 19.39Mbps ATSC signal. With better encoders I think they expect a 10 Mbps average - allowing them carry another 720p channel and maybe an SD channel.

All the networks have equipment installed allowing them to switch the correct channel change to automatically for special programs or sports or the local station can handle it and triggered commercials. Part of the hardware that's used for logo insertion, severe weather tickers, the tickers during the morning shows is manufactured by EVERTZ and for NBC it's called NameDropper HD and CBS is LIDIA (not sure about abc). The functions of this hardware is triggered by the network. The tickers itself can be edited in ENPS or a simple text file where every new line is interpreted as a new headline with a divisor such as •. Some stations like Hearst have several Viz Engines at their use and they use it for snipes during programs, a much better and visual emergency alert system (better than just a line on screen), and closing. Additionally my NBC I think has coded it to have the station logo on screen in the corner where other NBC stations logos appear and disappear.


The previews you are alluding to are likely a type of soft opt.

NBC doesn't do the ECP ends where they can superimpose video above the credits but some ABC stations do. The stations have the exact timings and the dimensions of video feed so they just shrink it to fit.

NBC for example ends their primetime exactly at 10:59:30 and cuts to black and affiliates can't start early given their way of playing out the end of show credits overtop a full screen promo.

I don't watch ABC often but I think they do the same but they may have a coverable promo for video above the credits like a ECP.

For CBS I don't think would be possible as the ECP credits show a preview in a U type shape with static pillar bars on the side, and in them 4:3 safe zone there's a bottom graphic running the credits and above it in a shrunken 16:9 preview feed appears. Additionally CBS goes right up to the top of the hour with another ad break.

Hope that makes some sense.
NG
noggin Founding member
Leeds will often mix on the opt back, sometimes leading vision so the very end of their end sting is under the network announcer doing the menu.


That used not to be possible on digital, when there were both analogue and digital opt-outs, because as soon as network was cut-up on the studio mixer, the DTT opt-switch pinged back (after a matched delay to counteract the analogue vs digital network encode delays) The only way round it was to route network to a second input on the mixer, and cut to that instead of the nominated input (to avoid the network source get a tally) But that could cause issues with aspect ratio - and in some regions slap a nasty PAL footprint over the network feed...
SP
Steve in Pudsey

Yes - though I'm not sure it has ever actually been used has it? In the analogue, and locally encoded digital days, when there wasn't a CCM-style operation for BBC One, there was a system called RATS - which was a regional alert system. I believe there were both Radio and TV versions that were designed to flash lights in the newsroom and gallery / radio studio to ensure people listened to network talkback (or the equivalent thing - GNS? - for radio) to return to network ASAP if they were opted out (or in the case of radio join up the stations for a common announcement)

I don't think RATs was/is anything to do with the way TV is distributed though, I'd assume that it or a similar system still exists. I remember a box for it on the wall of a former workplace, I have a feeling it was radio activated as it wasn't connected to anything, though no idea how.


Commercial radio has a similar system, which famously failed when the Queen Mum died as it was bank holiday weekend and IRN was on minimal freelance staffing and didn't press the button to activate it!

The network recall system was a button in pres. Don't think it was used in anger, tested regularly though


RATS is indeed the BBC's equivalent of the IRN Obit Alarm (now known as the Major Story Alarm, after the QM cock up), I think it stands for something along the lines of Radio Alert Transmission System, although the unofficial version is Royal About To Snuff.

I think I'm right in saying that it's triggered by the data encoded in the Radio 4 LW signal, much like the dual rate electricity meter switching, which explains your observation that it didn't appear to be connected to anything.
Inspector Sands and Rkolsen gave kudos
DE
deejay
Ah, memories of spurious RATS alarms when the silly thing lost its R4 FM signal... crying wolf all the bleeding time. And yes, I can confirm the "Royal About to Snuff" acronym!

I think the tv network recall ceased to be for a fair while after the analogue distribution ceased.

Back to soft opting, there aren't really many major advantages - apart from giving the ability to opt early as described in this thread, put network in studio screens, mix to and from network, or key captions over network. When the regions had more autonomy (a long time ago) soft opting was a given, very BBC way of working. Network distribution went via regional switching centres and control was given at opt times to local studios as required for programmes. Centres further down stream could receive macro regional programmes, so Bristol for example, could perform an opt simultaneously for the West and Southwest (and/or South) fairly easily by reconfiguring the distribution of a network via their gallery or pres gallery. West/South West/South opts happened as late as 2004 as far as I recall (I remember doing some on BBC 2 analogue for Restoration)

I'm not sure Child Resuce Alerts still exist in regional tv, but I do remember preparing astons for keying over network should it be required. I was put on standby to do one once, and I also remember being on standby to caption over BBC One for local flooding evacuation advice. In the end, as it was lunchtime, we waited til the regional news was on and actually provided a sub-regional ticker, with police advice, local radio frequencies and phone numbers for the environment agency.

To go HD, I think the BBC will probably change the way regions work, choosing a more centralised opting structure and possibly also choosing a more centralised approach to equipment. There is a project at the moment to replace ageing local radio station infrastructure with centralised systems controlled remotely from desks in local stations. There are still faders and mics etc in local studios but they're all connected to technical facilities at centralised (and backed up) locations. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a similar approach was taken to tv.
AlexEdohHD13 and Steve in Pudsey gave kudos
SP
Steve in Pudsey
The other advantage of soft opting is the ability to check you're actually in circuit - some regions put up a cue dot when they soft opt, which gives them a confidence check that their opt switch has worked.
AN
Andrew Founding member
It's quite interesting who leads the way and trails along behind in these sorts of things, and it looks like the BBC has moved from one to the other.

The BBC usually led the way in the role of progressing technological advances, they were first with widescreen, digital TV channels etc. remember the days when BBC Choice launched to literally no viewers. Money was spent on UK Today as mentioned above, even though it was basically just a sustaining service watched by nobody.

Sky will get involved and adopt early if it means they can flog new boxes or put the subscriptions up.

ITV will drag their feet as there won't be anything in it for them, but will adopt when it starts to get to a stage where they look out of step and old fashioned, note how late ITV News went widescreen for example. They will step it up if it effects the advertisers.

Now the BBC have moved to the back of the queue as well where they can't justify finishing the job, so they are likely to be both the first and last when it comes to making everything HD.
NG
noggin Founding member

To go HD, I think the BBC will probably change the way regions work, choosing a more centralised opting structure and possibly also choosing a more centralised approach to equipment. There is a project at the moment to replace ageing local radio station infrastructure with centralised systems controlled remotely from desks in local stations. There are still faders and mics etc in local studios but they're all connected to technical facilities at centralised (and backed up) locations. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a similar approach was taken to tv.


Well if VILOR for TV happens - then soft opting would be a lot cheaper and still an option Smile
MW
Mike W


Well if VILOR for TV happens - then soft opting would be a lot cheaper and still an option Smile

i believe there are plans (whether they're set in stone I don't know) to use ViLoR technology for Regions TV depending on how it works on local radio
MA
Markymark


Well if VILOR for TV happens - then soft opting would be a lot cheaper and still an option Smile

i believe there are plans (whether they're set in stone I don't know) to use ViLoR technology for Regions TV depending on how it works on local radio


I was talking to some Beeb people this week about just this, nothing is set in stone regarding a ViLOR style
arrangement for the regions, but that's certainly the road the thinking has embarked along !
MA
Markymark

Now the BBC have moved to the back of the queue as well where they can't justify finishing the job, so they are likely to be both the first and last when it comes to making everything HD.


The English regions have often lagged behind with technology. For example Southampton opened in 1991 as a composite site, the same year Granada had opened equivalent facilities at Albert Dock using component video, which of course was the whole point of the Betacam news acquisition format.
DO
dosxuk
Now the BBC have moved to the back of the queue as well where they can't justify finishing the job, so they are likely to be both the first and last when it comes to making everything HD.


It's important to remember that if the "ViLoT" plans come to fruition, the BBC will be leading the way with the technology. Without the commercial pressures to get the correct adverts shown in the correct places the BBC have fallen behind, but that's allowing them to actually look at a solution which will last more than a couple of years. The fact that this has happened at the same time as they're having to justify every single penny they spend only serves to make it even more important to invest in the right solution.

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