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BBC One HD This Autumn

Split from the generic thread (May 2010)

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NG
noggin Founding member
BBC One Nations produce HD content (and BBC Scotland has an HD-ready news studio), BBC One English regions don't currently (apart possibly form BBC Leeds who have some HD editing facilities)

The Sony Z1 is marginal for SD broadcast quality - and neither the camera sensor nor the 25Mbs HDV recording format are close to broadcastable HD quality.

The Sony EX1/EX3 have decent cameras - and for news the 35Mbs codec MIGHT be acceptable (most broadcasters require 50Mbs bolt-on recorders if you want to use EX1/3s)

The new Canon 305 records 50Mbs and has a decent camera - and is likely to be the favoured "HD Z1" replacement.

As DVCam tape gear is retired it is likely to be replaced by file-based camcorders which are both HD and SD capable. The benefits of a file based workflow (compare the cost of a Compact Flash card reader with a DSR DVCam VTR deck) are too great to ignore...

However I don't see English regional variants of BBC One HD for a while yet - particularly not on satellite. Freeview HD could be an option though I guess - though what's the point if the regional output isn't HD?
PE
Pete Founding member
However I don't see English regional variants of BBC One HD for a while yet - particularly not on satellite. Freeview HD could be an option though I guess - though what's the point if the regional output isn't HD?


Well the point is more that you'd expect BBC1 HD will eventually become the default in the way BBC 1 Digital took over from BBC1 Analogue. Obviously with such minor changes between the English regions (compared to the Nations) I'm not suggesting it should be done as a massive priority I was more thinking a few years down the line when HD penetration is far higher.

Especially if we reach the stage where Sky have BBC One HD swapping with BBC One SD for position 101.
DO
dosxuk
Pete posted:
However I don't see English regional variants of BBC One HD for a while yet - particularly not on satellite. Freeview HD could be an option though I guess - though what's the point if the regional output isn't HD?


Well the point is more that you'd expect BBC1 HD will eventually become the default in the way BBC 1 Digital took over from BBC1 Analogue. Obviously with such minor changes between the English regions (compared to the Nations) I'm not suggesting it should be done as a massive priority I was more thinking a few years down the line when HD penetration is far higher.

Especially if we reach the stage where Sky have BBC One HD swapping with BBC One SD for position 101.


Indeed, and as I said before, I see BBC Two HD as a higher priority than HD in the regions, and I don't see BBC Two HD coming for a few years at least, and certainly not until the DDR has (finally) completed and we know exactly how much spectrum DTT has available to operate with.
NG
noggin Founding member
Pete posted:
However I don't see English regional variants of BBC One HD for a while yet - particularly not on satellite. Freeview HD could be an option though I guess - though what's the point if the regional output isn't HD?


Well the point is more that you'd expect BBC1 HD will eventually become the default in the way BBC 1 Digital took over from BBC1 Analogue. Obviously with such minor changes between the English regions (compared to the Nations) I'm not suggesting it should be done as a massive priority I was more thinking a few years down the line when HD penetration is far higher.

Especially if we reach the stage where Sky have BBC One HD swapping with BBC One SD for position 101.


Think that depends on take-up and priorities for spending money. The number of additional satellite transponders needed to simulcast BBC One SD and BBC One HD regional variations would cost a LOT of extra money, and for no initial HD benefit. It's a pity they can't engineer boxes to switch to the SD region at the opt points... Much cheaper solution.
AB
aberdeenboy
BBC2 HD itself may be a while off. but the BBC HD Channel will surely become a defacto BBC2 HD as more and more BBC2 programmes move into HD. Clearly, new programmes being shown for the first time on 2 will take priority over repeat material from 3 or 4.

As you know, the presumption is that all BBC network programmes will be in HD from the spring, other than studio based news and current affairs - although, of course, for some time there will be programmes which have not made the jump. So this could easily leave BBC HD as BBC2 HD in all but name from mid afternoon through to Newsnight. The only slots available to showcase 3 or 4 material could be the holes left by the repeats of Dad's Army!
DV
DVB Cornwall
Disagree with that assumption, BBC HD will until the capacity for a third channel is available be a best of and archive channel. The use of HD on BBC Four programmes makes them unmissable in the format and to some extent, imo, more deserving than BBC TWO.
AB
aberdeenboy
Trust me, whatever you think should happen and there are valid arguments about which programmes benefit most from HD, pragmatism suggests it'll be BBC2 HD in all but name within a year if current trends continue.

A bigger question may be this. Should the BBC's HD development be held up by the lack of space on Freeview? Could it be acceptable to have BBC1 HD, BBC2 HD, BBC3 HD and BBC4 HD on Sky, Freesat and cable... and leave Freeview with BBC1 HD and a general purpose BBC HD Channel?

I don't have stats, but sales of Freeview HD boxes have not been massive. So should HD be held up by a platform of a platform which only has a limited capacity for HD? Or is it simply a matter of making sure a BBC service is available free at the point of use to anyone with the appropriate equipment?
GE
thegeek Founding member
Pete posted:
I think it's likely that national variants of BBC One HD will appear long before English regional ones.


There has been talk previously about BBC regions moving to the ITV model of sending their feed to London and then London sending it back to the transmitter rather than the existing system of direct local opts to the transmitters.

If this is implemented will it makes it easier to regionalise BBC One HD on DTT/Virgin (Sky uplink costs aside of course)?

Coding & Mux has been centralised for the best part of a year now.
Regionalising BBC One HD on DTT would require either fitting it into Mux PSB1 (the BBC's mux that carries BBC 1) -- and there's no space; or regionalising PSB3, which would require a whole load of new coders and multiplexers.
It might be possible for the BBC to match what ITV are doing, but for the moment, they seem to think a caption is the least worst option.

(And regionalising it on DSAT would require a whole load more satellite space too, which ain't cheap.)
Last edited by thegeek on 21 November 2010 3:34pm

9 days later

MB
Media Boy
Tut tut at all this upscaled output continuing to go out with an HD dog on it. How very misleading.


I agree.
I've been away since BBC One HD launched, and have come back to hear announcers trailing progs on BBC One HD that are NOT HD, with the HD Bug remaining on SD Up-scaled output!
It's bloody awful and has really NOT been thought through.
I was around when we launched BBC One widescreen, and we took great pains to make sure that everything was announced only when it was true widescreen and that trails and annos were only placed in the correct place on the correct stream.
I feel that this has been terribly implemented by BBC TV and Red Bee... Someone needs to sort it out. And soon.
NG
noggin Founding member
Hadn't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but BBC News and Current Affairs appear to have announced their new ENG/PSC cameras.

They're buying 200 KMW-350s - which are a shoulder mount 3 x CMOS 2/3" cameras with XD Cam EX 4:2:0 35Mbs Flash recording (also capable of 25Mbs SD DVCam 4:2:0 as an option). These are to replace the workhorse News DSR DVCam tape camcorders. In addition they are buying 50 KMW-500s - which are a shoulder mount 3 x CCD 2/3" camera with XD Cam HD 4:2:2 50Mbs Flash recording (a first from Sony). Effectively the 500 is a Flash version of their existing PDW-700 XD Cam disc HD camcorder.

Interesting move. The KMW 350s don't meet the current BBC HD guidelines without a bolt-on Nanoflash recorder or similar - as 35Mbs isn't high enough for HD acquisition using Long GOP codecs (MPEG2 in the case of XD Cam EX). Suspect they are preparing to relax the specs for News in readiness for the move to W1/Salford when I imagine BBC One News bulletins will go fully HD?
NG
noggin Founding member

As you know, the presumption is that all BBC network programmes will be in HD from the spring, other than studio based news and current affairs - although, of course, for some time there will be programmes which have not made the jump.


I think that is overstating it a little.

The BBC has stated that all NEW commissions will be expected to deliver in HD as a default from April 2011 (next financial year), and will need to discuss delivery in SD as part of their commissioning if they plan to work SD. I don't believe the BBC plan to pay extra for HD in the future either - they expect it to be considered the default for modern network production.

However this doesn't mean that existing long-standing commissions will switch, and there are likely to be pragmatic issues surrounding lower budget, lower audience shows outside peak time. Large chunks of network production is already HD (particularly in-house stuff) or has announced the switch. However long-standing independent commissions are likely to take a while - as they have long term deals.

Sport and News are also likely to be considered independently as they are not commissioned in the same way as other output and also have large amounts of SD infrastructure that won't be upgraded significantly prior to relocation to Salford and W1.
PE
Pete Founding member
Interesting move. The KMW 350s don't meet the current BBC HD guidelines without a bolt-on Nanoflash recorder or similar - as 35Mbs isn't high enough for HD acquisition using Long GOP codecs (MPEG2 in the case of XD Cam EX). Suspect they are preparing to relax the specs for News in readiness for the move to W1/Salford when I imagine BBC One News bulletins will go fully HD?


I presume News specs will have to be lower if only due to the much faster turnaround on news.

Do you happen to know anything of the rumour that News would have to run two graphics systems if it were to originate in HD as the downsampling would mush them up?

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