BBC One

IF the BBC One Christmas ident is based around Doctor Who whichever idiotic creative person that came up with it needs shooting.

Doctor Who is just awful. (We won't go into that)

The circles brand image is weak and the dancers were stronger.

Relief is they will be due to change in October 2010.

I'm curious about the speed at which the apology caption is put to air. There were a few incidents earlier in the year, where it seemed to take rather a long time for Playout to react.

During the summer, overnight Ceefax transmissions on BBC Two went through a period where brief periods of black screen seemed very common. A different Ceefax generator would then spring into action (incidentally, that generator hasn't been seen on air for some time). I just wonder if these periods of 'black' were actually part of a test for a new automated system that puts an apology caption to air, when vision is lost for five seconds or more?

It also strikes me that breakdowns seem much more common on the BBC than any of the other major UK networks.

I dislike Dr Who as much as the posters/kneejerkers who have gone before me but if he does feature in this year's Christmas ident I'll get over it. At least the production values will be high, and if you don't care for high production values I suggest flicking over to BBC Two, who's effort will surely be craptastic.


Are you off your rocker? The Circles are far from the best idents ever conceived but the Dancers' 'brand image' was similar to that of a lump of dog poo.

Now with regards to the alleged Doctor Who Christmas ident, I am not a BBC person but from what I have heard is that the idea for Doctor Who to feature in the ident was mooted on here some time ago. I mentioned this on the Gallifrey Base forum (a Doctor Who fan forum), and somebody in the know said that this was indeed the case. This could be idle speculation and I wish I could be more definite with information, I'm hearing things just like the rest of you are.

The reason why I believe it could happen is looking at the context of what will be going on this Christmas. It's Tennant's swansong as Doctor Who, a huge promotional campaign for this will be going on and if you want to remind people about a show subconsiously you can put them in an ident. Lord knows how you can make Doctor Who Christmassey in an ident though. The Rhythm and Movement era had great music but the idents were nothing special and the dancers were even weaker than the circles. We have had far superior idents since the circles came in, well until they were butchered but the problem with both is that they are not a logo. The globe and a '1' are logos and I honestly think they missed a trick when in 1991 this striking '1' wasn't used as the main ident.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n211/cylon1_2006/bbc1xmas1992.jpghttp://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n211/cylon1_2006/bbc1xmas1993day.jpghttp://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n211/cylon1_2006/bbc1xmas1994v1.jpg

They used it at Christmas and in trails but never for the main ident. Such a shame! http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n211/cylon1_2006/pic17421-1.gif

Not a fan of the show, but no issue at all with a Dcotor Who Christmas ident - I'm sure it'll be done better than the Wallace and Gromit effort last year.

I'm fairly sure I remember the rumours of a Doctor Who christmas ident around this time last year, with the excuse being given then that it was to make up for there not being a full series this year, and to tie in with the specials which aired at christmas. Then there was "confirmation" of a Doctor Who ident when the BBC said the ident would be based around one of their family specials.

I personally think the whole rumour is a load of tosh. Doctor Who is too big a brand to use to brand a channel. It would be like ITV using X Factor to brand their christmas output. I could believe that there will be a special Doctor Who ident, for use like the Bang Goes the Theory, or Ashes to Ashes, but not to be the only ident used all christmas.

Agreed. The circles are the strongest of the BBC branding and are now almost symbollic of the channel.

How long before someone starts a Christmas 2009 thread..

Slightly O/T - but did anyone spot not only an old BBC One logo but also an old BBC Two logo being projected onto part of the Albert Hall behind Clive Anderson last night at the beginning of each part of the Proms? Surprised they still have these available...

Yes, how dare you? We were discussing Christmas.

Actually, I'm not too surprised at that - they probably wouldn't wish to spend their money on something as trivial as the correct logo!

The lighting firm (who may do the event annually) are probably just reusing the glass logo slides (a "gobo") each year. They may not realise the logo has changed, or indeed the client (the BBC) may have opted not to pay for new ones to be manufactured. They're not cheap.

Not surprising, in those terms.

I've got a drawer full of old Radio One gobos somewhere.

The Rhythm & Movement set was certainly completely inferior to the identity it replaced; therefore the negativity in 2002 was completely justified. It lacked an equally iconic symbol, especially. In concept, it was comparatively very poor.

However, we will always judge new presentation in this way, based what has come before; in 2006, the Circles certainly had much less of a tough act to follow - and they certainly did not have to carry the burden of being associated with the end of the globe symbol!

If we look at them on individual aspects, there are a few things the Circle campaign could and should have learned from the R&M era: proper and consistent use of signature colour, good direction including quick reveal of the visual theme [partially fixed in the Circles since the revision - but not quite], strong musical score, greater quantity of appropriate idents for news. These are all specific areas where I feel the R&M era is genuinely stronger than the Circles - and on this forum at least, I haven't heard any majority of opinion against those particular traits.

On the first point of signature colour, these idents are particularly guilty of falling short. From the outset I have felt 'Kites' to be a more fitting ident than most of the others - this is definitely due in part to the strong red. But also consider of Kites: UK location, real-world, very straightforward production. IMHO this set started going downhill when the designers turned what should be so-called 'regular', standard idents into surreal fantasy; 'Forest' makes some Christmas idents look quite regular by comparison (and one of them became just that!), which detracts from the special nature of Christmas pres and renders it less unique - an indicator of too much creativity wasted on regular idents. Ironically, it is BBC Two - the apparent less-mainstream alternative - that is suffering from a complete lack of creativity.

Sweeping statements like "the Dancers were better / rubbish" alone are too simplified. There are a lot of factors to consider; but I personally feel that, if certain aspects of the R&M set were applied to the Circle concept, it would have improved the original set considerably and, dare I say, eliminated the need for the re-cuts and changed music we have now.

At the core, I still believe BBC One has no symbol of substance at present. Just 'a circle' - let alone one that keeps changing form and colour making the term 'symbol' in itself dubious - isn't strong enough. Part of the problem may be that the modern design process is dicatated too much by the meaning rather than retaining visually iconic symbols in themselves. 'cwathen' made an excellent post along these lines recently in another topic, which I must commend him for, even if it is now a little late to mention!


Is that so? Seems a little bit premature - especially given the amount spent, and the additional idents in more recent years. I would have expected them to last into 2011, albeit not far beyond that.

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Re: the 'This Week on the BBC' trails - how long are they planning to run these for? I really like the idea; it's been a while since I've seen trails of this sort - if it highlights programmes that otherwise receive no promotion, I think it's a very good move.

The end logo music on these trails is quite sombre; I instantly felt would have been an appropriate style to base the generic corporate / BBC Video logo animation on; and it would have definitely been more in keeping with the previous two jingles which were very simple, sombre and rather gentle - instead of the 'rock-orchestra' style intro actually being used now (which I fell doesn't really suit, and for my taste seems a little too American!)


A recording of Sunday's BBC One breakdown mentioned earlier in the topic:

http://www.duke1401.myby.co.uk/BBCONE-FAULT-13SEP09.flv

Good choice to return to this sort of music for breakdowns instead of the looping the ident music, I reckon.