Nice idea - option 5 - but difficult to do in reality. The 4 screens are broadcast as a single video stream made up of four quarter screen feeds (the box then just shows the right quarter screen - which is why you can't see it full frame - it doesn't exist full-frame in the box!) - difficult to fit a 5th one in!
BTW - I believe that Sky Movies Active (and probably soon Sky News Active) will squeeze 8 screens into a single full-frame feed by broadcasting at a half vertical resolution, but a quarter horizontal resolution (a grid of 4 channels horizontally, by 2 vertically) with the set top box stretching and 'unsquashing' the chosen screen horizontally. The pictures are likely to look much softer as a result.
Well I'm impressed. Although, I know the bulletins are meant to be short but I get the feeling they're a little *too* short. Still, I can see myself using it when I get home from college etc.. for the sports section. And good to see a bit of interlinking with BBC Text.
I think it's a big load of poo. Well it is, isn't it?
I was told how easy and flexible BBC Text was and I said that was a load of rubbish and I think I've proved my point. Press red, press text, press blue, press 4 - f*ck off. The text service is to say the least a pain in the a*se to use, if you press red then you just get video, if you want text then you have to go up the menu and wait a couple of hours for the thing to load up. You may as well just press text FFS!
And News 24 seem to have failed to grasp the idea that interactive news and this Live Plus (although when I saw it, it wasn't actually live...) lark should allow them greater flexibility. I got in just as this Heathrow business was being annouced and saw Sky take the decision and a bit of commons coverage then plonk it on active and start to cover it. News 24 just carried on with it and then pulled out later, when in theory they could've done what Sky did, and put it on the interactive service.
The bulletins are way too short - and fronted by an ex-Sky man who's now reduced his journalistic credibility to zero. I was sad enough - I'll admit it - to time the bulletins and make a wee comparison. Sky's was 5 mins 30 seconds, News 24's was 2 mins 30 seconds. Righto...
It's just very awkward to use and looks a bit shoddy IMO.
Not that I'm biased, because I'm not.
As for me returning to my argumentative stance, it's about time too. I have a lot of built up tension inside me and it has to be let out someway. But with credit to Burblebox, he's a very clever man.
I like the new interactive service for the simple reason it loads quicker than sky news active. I can understand why the beeb are linking it with teletext for the simple reason there is no difference between text services and interactive services. Text is an anolouge thing.
BU
burblebrox
Thanks for your kind words c@t - I must admit that while I do disagree with you on many points, I've thoroughly enjoyed the debate, and with that in mind I feel honour bound to reply.
Quote:
. Press red, press text, press blue, press 4 - f*ck off. The text service is to say the least a pain in the a*se to use, if you press red then you just get video
Well, that's what happens - I watch News 24, press red, the video appears and then I choose which one - OK, going in through text is a bit of a longer journey, but only one button - press text, press blue, select Latest in Video and you're there.
I often thought they should have kept the CEEFAX page number system which would have made it much easier, and to give them credit, Sky Text did try that.
As for the length of the bulletins, I have to say that if I'm going to have to wait 5'30' for the whole bulletin, I may as well have watched Sky News itself - sort of makes the SNA pointless really.
I suspect the Byers stuff wasn't shown on BBC News Active because it was already being shown on BBC Parliament, and News 24 pointed that out - there's no point repeating it on BBC News Active. I watched the interactive feature with Rageh Omar at 2.30pm, News 24 pointed to it after Omar's piece at 2pm and that was just great - Sky have never done that on SNA, and I hope the BBC will do more of that.
I suspect this one is going to run and run. I like the unfussy design of BBC News active but again, I don't want to appear biased. I actually think the Sky Movies Active service rocks, it's a pity I can't say the same about Sky News Active - maybe if they do upgrade it, I could.
BTW - you believe I'm 'a clever man' - whatever makes you think I'm a man?
(Edited by burblebrox at 9:16 am on Nov. 28, 2001)
PD
Pete Davis
Now I've managed to double post...
(Edited by Pete Davis at 8:42 pm on Nov. 21, 2001)
PD
Pete Davis
I give up. Sorry about the weird quoting, I just cant get it to work...
>>
I think it's a big load of poo. Well it is, isn't it?
<<
Things it does better than Sky News Active (IMHO):
A - Faster - Sky News Active seems to take an age to change window. Or go to the text lists. Etc. BBC Text is much faster IMHO. Especially with the text stuff. Scrolling? What were they thinking when they designed Sky News active? Its stupid, and slow...
B - Intergrated with BBC Text. Why does Sky run 2 seperate interactive text services? I like to be able to access stuff other than news while still ahving access to the extra video feeds.
C - You can watch the new video feeds while reading BBC Text. With Sky News Active when you go onto the text the video window changes to Sky News.
>>
I was told how easy and flexible BBC Text was and I said that was a load of rubbish and I think I've proved my point. Press red, press text, press blue, press 4 - f*ck off. The text service is to say the least a pain in the a*se to use, if you press red then you just get video, if you want text then you have to go up the menu and wait a couple of hours for the thing to load up. You may as well just press text FFS!
<<
BTW, you are partly complaining about a feature Sky News Active doest have. You cant watch the extra feeds (just Sky News) when browsing SNA's text features. BBC Text does let you, but because its a bit slow your complaining.
I guess BBC Text might be a bit weird to navigate, but I've got used to using it, so I can use it quite quickly. Its probably the fact I use it nearly everyday. I've only ever used Sky Text and Sky News Active to go 'coo, its there'. its probably the fact I can continue to watch TV when browsing text. Sky really should impliment it and I might just use it (if there was anything worth watching on Sky channels, which there never is anyway apart from the odd US series on Sky One which I usually record, so I cant use the text anyway).
Plus I only ever knew 4 page numbers on CEEFAX (100, 101, 199 and 591) and a couple of Teletext (100, 110 - I dont even know where the index is on Teletext), so i dont mourn the passing of the stupid numbering system as I havent memorised the complete A-Z of britains teletext services.
>>
And News 24 seem to have failed to grasp the idea that interactive news and this Live Plus (although when I saw it, it wasn't actually live...) lark should allow them greater flexibility. I got in just as this Heathrow business was being annouced and saw Sky take the decision and a bit of commons coverage then plonk it on active and start to cover it. News 24 just carried on with it and then pulled out later, when in theory they could've done what Sky did, and put it on the interactive service.
<<
I gather BBC Parliment was carrying tha, so it probably would be stupid to show the same thing on many channel (I noticed News 24 seem ot have stopped covering PMQ's live because BBC 2 (and Parliment) are carrying coverage.
>>
The bulletins are way too short - and fronted by an ex-Sky man who's now reduced his journalistic credibility to zero. I was sad enough - I'll admit it - to time the bulletins and make a wee comparison. Sky's was 5 mins 30 seconds, News 24's was 2 mins 30 seconds. Righto...
<<
So the BBC have shorted headlines. Thats a bit petty isnt it? Plus I find I get bored and go away waiting for the Sky News Active bullitins to start again, so 5 mins is a bit too long. I've found the BBC ones to give me the quick summary I want if I want the news / weather before I walk the dog or whatever.
>>
Not that I'm biased, because I'm not.
<<
Really? I havent heard you say a positive thing about News 24 ever. One of the first things some biased people say is that they're not biased (I am, I'm biased against Sky News Active and Sky Text as they're slow and inferior compared to BBC Text (and I hated the stupid page numbers on Teletext)).
The only impression I've got from your postings is that you worship at the temple of Murdoch (disclaimer: I know News Corp etc. doesn own all of Sky etc. etc...) and anyhting anyone else does is crud. Or am I totally wrong?
(Edited by Pete Davis at 8:52 pm on Nov. 21, 2001)
Firstly, if you're viewing one of the feeds (via BBC text rather than pressing the red button) and press Text to get out of the service, for the couple of seconds it takes to get back to News 24 or wherever you were you get the split-screen mosaic. (I'm sure someone will go to the trouble of capturing it and putting it up here).
Secondly, the bulletins seem, maybe its accidental, but I hope its deliberate - to start at almost exactly the same time. This is very, very good, because it means that you can watch the weather, then when its finished switch over to news, without missing anything.
Looking forward to see what they put on Live Plus tomorrow, I've been in London last couple of days so haven't got to see it.
And has the 'press red' idea for BBC1/2 news programmes been scrapped? I haven't seen it at all so far.
Quote: from Pete Davis on 8:31 pm on Nov. 21, 2001[
>Things it does better than Sky News Active (IMHO):
>A - Faster - Sky News Active seems to take an age to change window. Or go to the text lists. Etc. BBC Text is much faster IMHO. Especially with the text stuff. Scrolling? What were they thinking when they designed Sky News active? Its stupid, and slow...
An age? My dear child, it takes less and half a second on my screen. Are you using an Amstrad processor? I do find that BBC Text takes longer to load on my digibox than Sky News Active.
>B - Intergrated with BBC Text. Why does Sky run 2 seperate interactive text services? I like to be able to access stuff other than news while still ahving access to the extra video feeds.
I don't... ever tried to read a book and watch the TV at the same time? Don't make me laugh, it doesn't work.
Sky runs two seperate services because that's what it wants to offer. As you say, you rarely look at the two services and so cannot make a decent comparison.
>C - You can watch the new video feeds while reading BBC Text. With Sky News Active when you go onto the text the video window changes to Sky News.
Agreed, this has always p*ssed me off about SNA, and no doubt if and when they do redesign it (they're going to eventually!) it will allow this to happen.
>I guess BBC Text might be a bit weird to navigate, but I've got used to using it, so I can use it quite quickly. Its probably the fact I use it nearly everyday. I've only ever used Sky Text and Sky News Active to go 'coo, its there'. its probably the fact I can continue to watch TV when browsing text. Sky really should impliment it and I might just use it (if there was anything worth watching on Sky channels, which there never is anyway apart from the odd US series on Sky One which I usually record, so I cant use the text anyway).
As you've said, you rarely use Sky's service, so it would be wrong for you to make a comparison.
>Plus I only ever knew 4 page numbers on CEEFAX (100, 101, 199 and 591) and a couple of Teletext (100, 110 - I dont even know where the index is on Teletext), so i dont mourn the passing of the stupid numbering system as I havent memorised the complete A-Z of britains teletext services.
You're obviously thick then. It's not hard to remember a set of three numbers.
BTW, the Teletext index is 101.
>I gather BBC Parliment was carrying tha, so it probably would be stupid to show the same thing on many channel (I noticed News 24 seem ot have stopped covering PMQ's live because BBC 2 (and Parliment) are carrying coverage.
Oh the classic argument. News 24 is a seperate channel for god's sake. Should they not have news at 6pm because people can get news on BBC One? Don't talk rubbish.
>So the BBC have shorted headlines. Thats a bit petty isnt it? Plus I find I get bored and go away waiting for the Sky News Active bullitins to start again, so 5 mins is a bit too long. I've found the BBC ones to give me the quick summary I want if I want the news / weather before I walk the dog or whatever.
So you do use Sky News Active, or you don't use Sky News Active? I rarely watch the video bulletins anyway, I tend to use the text services.
>Really? I havent heard you say a positive thing about News 24 ever. One of the first things some biased people say is that they're not biased (I am, I'm biased against Sky News Active and Sky Text as they're slow and inferior compared to BBC Text (and I hated the stupid page numbers on Teletext)).
That's because there is very little positive to say about News 24. And where have you been for the past two weeks? Only the other day I was suggesting that this is the 'BBC's war', because they've been doing so well in Afghanistan.
>The only impression I've got from your postings is that you worship at the temple of Murdoch (disclaimer: I know News Corp etc. doesn own all of Sky etc. etc...) and anyhting anyone else does is crud. Or am I totally wrong?
You're totally wrong.
Does he have a temple now? God, and to think I wasn't invited to the housewarming.
It is not at all the case that everything anyone else does is 'crud'. It is merely the case that Sky News do things better than any other news channel. I have great respect for things like Five Live, Despatch Box on BBC2, and the World Service. But they've had since 1997 to work out that News 24 should not be an hour long 6 o'clock news, and it still hasn't sunk in.
Quote: from burblebrox on 12:42 pm on Nov. 21, 2001
>Well, that's what happens - I watch News 24, press red, the video appears and then I choose which one - OK, going in through text is a bit of a longer journey, but only one button - press text, press blue, select Latest in Video and you're there.
I can't understand why they bother to create a seperate section for the video news bit, it's SO much easier just to go via BBC Text and use the change TV option on there.
>I often thought they should have kept the CEEFAX page number system which would have made it much easier, and to give them credit, Sky Text did try that.
Yes, and I'll have you know that today's horoscope was far more accurate on Sky than anything of the BBC's. Although to be fair the Beeb's was more in-depth, it was totally wrong though.
>As for the length of the bulletins, I have to say that if I'm going to have to wait 5'30' for the whole bulletin, I may as well have watched Sky News itself - sort of makes the SNA pointless really.
As I've said before I very rarely use the video headlines service on either of them. I tend to prefer the agenda of Sky News Active too. When I go on to BBC Text I tend to find that some of the stories I'd consider to be more important are at the bottom, ie the fact that this football strike was at the top of the headlines on BBC Text. I couldn't care less, whereas Sky have seperate sections and stick to the seperate sections.
>I suspect the Byers stuff wasn't shown on BBC News Active because it was already being shown on BBC Parliament, and News 24 pointed that out - there's no point repeating it on BBC News Active. I watched the interactive feature with Rageh Omar at 2.30pm, News 24 pointed to it after Omar's piece at 2pm and that was just great - Sky have never done that on SNA, and I hope the BBC will do more of that.
Sky really should be bringing back Your Call, it was a great success and IIRC it was fairly highly ranked in the ratings. It was excellent during the election campaign too.
>I suspect this one is going to run and run. I like the unfussy design of BBC News active but again, I don't want to appear biased. I actually think the Sky Movies Active service rocks, it's a pity I can't say the same about Sky News Active - maybe if they do upgrade it, I could.
But you are biased, as am I. You probably work for the BBC. I'm pretty certain Sky News Active will be upgraded to the style of the website, curved edges for the frames of the video feeds and brown and greeny colours.
They're both good services - the BBC service being drastically improved if you go via BBC Text - but I prefer the individuality of SNA, it seems to be a more dedicated service than BBC News I.
At present Sky News Active is the only Sky Interactive service with video feeds that doesn't have 8 feeds, so I think it's fair to assume that 8 feeds will be coming Sky's way very soon.
Possible feeds...
Headlines - already in operation
Weather - already in operation
Sport - could easily plonk one of the sports bulletins done on the main channel on there, so wouldn't require any extra content being produced
Business - again, could just plonk a business bulletin from the main channel on there
Entertainment - already being done
Parliament - easy to take a feed directly from parliament
Fox News - again, simple link in to Fox to provide some American news
Events - this is just presser material, similar to Live Plus in that it's the feed used specifically for events and conferences.
So it really wouldn't require Sky to produce a drastic amount of extra content.
