I think a valid point is made here - some caps to illustrate would be nice.
Surely if they can't do them themselves, a complete version of the ident could be provided from the network of something - or just play out the network BBC One idents - which though it might upset some nationalists, from a presentation point of view looks better than a cut and paste local effort.
The idents are 100% correctly branded. You might want to watch before you comment.
Why are you taking this thread as a personal attack - I opened my post by requesting caps.
Another point about poor BBC presentation in Northern Ireland:
I've flicked through the regions on Sky and watched Newsline a couple of times. Doesn't something strike its viewers as being slightly odd? The BBC logo does not match the actual BBC logo - the letters are either too big for the boxes or not central (I can't remember which) but it is quite awful and looks bad, yet no-one seems to have noticed or bothered to correct it. Doesn't surprise me that BBC One idents are executed poorly too.
Having said that, my own region isn't much better. When we had the dancers on BBC One, the writing in the red box was blurred on the North-West version of Acrobats, and the box for Thai Chi was nearly pink! It certainly wasn't my tv!
Don't 'criticise' anything that happens at Broadcasting House in Belfast. The staff seem to think it is a personal insult. It appears that BBC NI is above criticism!
I've flicked through the regions on Sky and watched Newsline a couple of times. Doesn't something strike its viewers as being slightly odd?
I complained about this when it first went on air. It is indeed clearly wrong. However, Newsline is generally a disaster area when it comes to graphics. I have lost count of the number of fonts they've used since they introduced their current look in 2004.
Another fine example is 'NI Results' on Saturdays. Have you ever seen the 'BBC NI Sport' sting at the end of that programme? Another distorted BBC logo and an animation that bears no resemblence to the BBC Sport graphics scheme. Oh and not to mention the fact that the programme itself is still using BBC Sport graphics that were discontinued on Network (and in Scotland and Wales) over two years ago. If you have Sky, just compare the results programmes of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland.
imaginativename posted:
Having said that, my own region isn't much better. When we had the dancers on BBC One, the writing in the red box was blurred on the North-West version of Acrobats, and the box for Thai Chi was nearly pink! It certainly wasn't my tv!
I don't know how the idents are distributed to the English regions but I am shocked by the variations in the technical quality of the idents across the English regions. The red box period was particularly bad.
Don't 'criticise' anything that happens at Broadcasting House in Belfast. The staff seem to think it is a personal insult. It appears that BBC NI is above criticism!
I think thats very unfair - I am sure people in pres in NI take great pride in thier work with the sresources avaiable and within the limitations given to them from London.
Having said that, my own region isn't much better. When we had the dancers on BBC One, the writing in the red box was blurred on the North-West version of Acrobats, and the box for Thai Chi was nearly pink! It certainly wasn't my tv!
I don't know how the idents are distributed to the English regions but I am shocked by the variations in the technical quality of the idents across the English regions. The red box period was particularly bad.
Why was BBC Manchester so bad? I remember that very well it was like as if it was being played from a VHS device or something, there was also at least one occassion where the Acrobats ident rewound on air whilst playing the North West Tonight music of that time. They got it sorted last year but even then the red box idents didn't look much better, but since the Circles came into force it looks alot better and no blurring either.
A few points to make in relation to some of the comments in this thread.
The idents (or symbols) in NI are executed perfectly, and often much better than in the other Nations.
No pre-recorded annos to go wrong like the ones from London...
and we dip and fade out the sound properly on symbols (as opposed to the dip down-and-up of the master fader, which is common practice in Scotland and I think Wales).
If you think that the design of the idents and the placing of "Northern Ireland" within the ident looks bad... then the criticism lies with Red Bee who created them.
As for the "Northern Ireland" sticking out further on the logo at the bottom of trails... than it does on the Idents and trail endboards... again that is a problem with the overall design from Red Bee... not the staff at BBC NI presentation.
The fact that the "Northern Ireland" fades up (rather than animating) over network trails is down to lack of resources, as Mike says.
However compare this to Scotland where some network trails have "Scotland" on them... while many others do not.
Please do not think that I'm attacking Scotland or Wales... differing working practices have developed for many different reasons. I'm simply pointing out that in Northern Ireland we enjoy what we do and take a tremendous pride in our work, and given the equipment / opportunity we would probably want to make some changes ourselves, however some things are out of our hands.
As for the graphics used on BBC Newsline of BBC NI Sport... that is nothing to do with the Presentation department.
The idents (or symbols) in NI are executed perfectly, and often much better than in the other Nations.
No, I'd disagree with that statement. Not all idents are executed perfectly. I would agree that the vast number of pres staff at BBC NI are pretty sharp and I'd certainly rate them highly; however, as with most organisations, there are a few exceptions, a few weak links in the chain.
denton posted:
No pre-recorded annos to go wrong like the ones from London...
True, but I've witnessed a reasonable number of on air cock-ups from BBC NI as well. Most recent, after the 10.35pm weather on Thursday night! Again though, I do admit, generally, the standard is high.
As a unit, you're very good, but you're not perfect!
denton posted:
and we dip and fade out the sound properly on symbols (as opposed to the dip down-and-up of the master fader, which is common practice in Scotland and I think Wales).
Not all of you do!! However, I agree that the technique used in Scotland and Wales is pretty awful. Again, just my view.
denton posted:
If you think that the design of the idents and the placing of "Northern Ireland" within the ident looks bad... then the criticism lies with Red Bee who created them.
As for the "Northern Ireland" sticking out further on the logo at the bottom of trails... than it does on the Idents and trail endboards... again that is a problem with the overall design from Red Bee... not the staff at BBC NI presentation.
But, was it not BBC NI that decided on the 'Northern Ireland' identifier, as opposed to 'N Ireland' or 'NI'? Surely that wasn't Red Bee's decision? If the text was restricted to 'NI' or 'N Ireland' there'd be no issue here.
denton posted:
The fact that the "Northern Ireland" fades up (rather than animating) over network trails is down to lack of resources, as Mike says. However compare this to Scotland where some network trails have "Scotland" on them... while many others do not.
No argument from me that the overall approach at BBC Scotland is poor. But, let us not lose sight of the fact that it's only in recent times that BBC NI started the practice of local branding on all trails.
However, it is indeed still commendable that BBC NI have gone down this route. It is regrettable, however, that the infrastructure is not in place to allow them to carry out the task as per the designer's spec.
denton posted:
Please do not think that I'm attacking Scotland or Wales... differing working practices have developed for many different reasons. I'm simply pointing out that in Northern Ireland we enjoy what we do and take a tremendous pride in our work, and given the equipment / opportunity we would probably want to make some changes ourselves, however some things are out of our hands.
Now, can we move away from the idea that this thread is some sort of personal attack on BBC NI Pres staff? It's not.
I am probably more aware than most others on this forum of the technical strengths and weaknesses of every on air member of the BBC NI Pres team. I am happy that the topics I have raised here don't relate to specific individuals at BBC NI Pres. The answers to my questions were always going to relate to policies or decisions taken at a higher level or outside of the local organisation.
Marksi and Denton both know that I hold many of the BBC NI pres team in very high regard. It is just a pity that your management have not provided the kind of technical environment you deserve. A situation that will be remedied very soon by the sound of things; just a pity it has been so long in coming.
Thanks for that... have edited accordingly... forgive me, I've just spent most of this afternoon on a trolley in A&E 