BBC/ITV/TV/Radio Employees

I'm not sure about these courses which revolve around studio based production! There are less and less programmes being made in studios, there are just no jobs really. Vision mixer is a job that's suffered huge job losses over the years, must be a big pool of freeelance vision mixers. You might end up being freelance vision mixer if you were very lucky, but what's the point, your only young. You could train for a real job with pension, sick pay, paid holidays, regular hours etc etc
Train to be a plumber instead.

That is certainly not the case in my experience - in fact it's quite the opposite.


If everybody took that attitude then no-one would end up in the industry at all. Yes, it's hard work and yes, the hours can be a bit gruelling - but if you love the job it's a small price to pay.

I presume doing it as a job is hard work, I've sat up till early in the morning working on my personal projects. I guess I'd be working even harder if I ever turn producing/directing into a career.

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the user "Charles Allen" is from the ITV stable, in which case what he said certainly rings true with me. He did forget to say that if you do get a job, you will have to do a great deal of work with little or no recognition - or even hand the recognition over to others...

I don't know where your coming from Jay? This forum has always discussed the closure of studio facilities. Why do you think there are so many closures?
The TV industry is increasingly the domain of young childless people often prepared to work ridiculous hours for very little or in some cases on money at all. Only spoilt rich kids will end up the industry.
I don't want to put anyone off, all I'm saying is if I was at the age where I was choosing my university course I wouldn't be choosing one which involved studio production.

Sorry Charles, i think you've mis-understood what i was trying to say.

Yes, many local TV Studios have closed in recent years, however it doesn't mean that the demand for studios is dwindling. Studios in London are nearly always full these days, because there is little or no alternative. The closure of many studios up and down the country is the result of cost-cutting moves, mainly by ITV.

It's also not true to say that only spoilt rich kids will end up in the industry - myself and many of my colleagues are neither.

The closure of tv studios was mainly because the costs of shooting on location fell and continues to fall due to the introduction of new technology.
Studio production has fallen the fact that studios in London are busy makes no difference to the argument.
I was referring to the following sentiments.

Average first TV wage is £12,000, reveals survey.
24 February 2006 12:34

Young people wanting to break into the TV industry face working up to three months for free and can look forward to a starting salary of just £12,000 a year, writes Geoff White.

A survey by Television and Young People (TVYP) - part of the annual Edinburgh TV Festival - found 77% of young people worked up to three months without pay, with 12% doing six months' work for free. The average salary of £12,000 is almost half that of a normal graduate, and works out at just over the legal minimum wage of £5.05, based on a 40-hour week. The study of 1,360 young people, aged 20 to 23, with two years' experience in television presents a grim picture of life in the industry for its newest recruits. More than half experienced working over 16 hours a day in their first year. Training was also criticised with 72% reporting no structured training at all. TVYP fears the combination of low salaries and unpaid hours will skew the industry towards those from wealthy backgrounds.

Source:broadcastnow.co.uk

I know at least 60 people who started in TV around the same time as me (about 3 years ago). Yes, many of us did placements, but I don't know one person who started on less than £16,000 in their first paid job...

In response to Charles Allen's fact summary, I have to say whilst the information is accurate, does that really bear too much relevance on a persons 'career'? I would say that most successful people in the industry I have met have come in the hard way - whether they started 2 or 10 years ago. There's absolutely nothing wrong with working for free to start with. What better way for a young person in a highly competitive industry to get their foot in the door than work placement/experience? Clearly there are better paid industries, but those more creative people should and do look more long term. If you want a career in TV badly enough, then work hard, do whatever you can and get in there. You may start on a low salary, but that's because the junior jobs in TV are very basic. You can work yourself up the ladder - with no exceptions - if you have the right attitude and ability. Also bear in mind that those average wages reflect the balance between all job roles in the TV industry... There are runners, junior secretaries, young set-hands and all sorts of very entry level positions that help create that average wage. It doesn't show the bigger picture.

TV Studios may have closed, but that isn't the whole story. It doesn't mean there's nowhere offering those facilities, it just means there is huge competitiion from smaller, newer facilities who are battling to take work away from them. Giants such as Sky with their 8 on site studios still use an enormous amount of outside resources, and personally I've worked with some very small and young facilities. Having to keep budgets down I've been in the position where I look for a great deal, and typically bigger outfits can't and won't compete with the newer and more hungry competition.

Back to the question, I agree whole heartedly that experience is the most important part of a successful career, but you can't always get experience without training. Personally, I took a degree in Corporate Design and only moved into TV by chance, but the fact that I had a piece of paper got me noticed, and then my CV and portfolio got me the job. There's no better way to build up a portfolio than in a training environment. The industry simply cannot offer the type of focused attention that a course tutor can. An average designer, for example, can often be trained to improve and find their strengths, but that doesn't always happen in a working environment. If you're surrounded by people stronger than you it's likely you'll be overlooked.

Without causing offense, it's clear - looking a few people who post mocks on this site - that they could never become prefessionals despite rave reviews by their peers. This forum encourages people to impress eachother, but fails to offer fundamental ideology behind design. Simply knocking out work constantly is experience, but nothing constructive. To improve, you must have be surrounded by people with more experience, and the time and inclination to help you develop. I have worked with many designers - often senior - who make huge salaries and have secure jobs, but are actually poor designers. These people cannot offer their junior staff the advice they need to improve themselves. In an educational environment the vast majority of tutors - and indeed peers - are much more qualified to offer advice.

Being in an educational environment helps you to develop your learning skills too... which when taken into a job helps you make the most out of the experience you get. Don't underestimate education. The trick is to understand the balance between learning at college/uni and in a work environment.

Very succinct and constructive post The Musician.

What I have come to realise about the broadcast industry is that there are almost as many routes in as there are people working in the industry, and increasingly so.

Attaining a degree in any discipline should demonstrate to an employer the maturity and dedication to commit to a period of extended study, and to manage your time and workload. It isn't the only way of doing this - but it is one way.

My degree was only tangentially relevant to my current job - but I don't regret doing it. Apart from anything - it delayed me chosing a career path by 3 years - and I was far better judged to chose a career at 21 than at 17... You do a lot of growing up in those three years.

I would also counsel caution at thinking any Media degree will be a good route in to a job in the industry. There ARE well regarded degrees - particularly a few with a craft bias. However many are regarded as pointless - especially if you want to go into production, rather than craft areas.

A more general degree (English, Politics, Music, Languages, Science, Engineering etc.) can actually be deemed more useful - as it implies a wider interest than JUST the media. After all - most programme making requires you to be interested in something other than the media.

As for the future of the industry... Yes, lots of ITV regional production studios have shut, and compared to 20 years ago there are probably fewer studio-based shows on BBC One and ITV1 - with those that remain being the province of a small band of craft teams, many of whom are freelance. However the massive explosion in low-cost TV channels has meant that there is actually quite a lot of studio output (not just the nasty quiz channels and the low cost shopping stuff) - as it is quite cost effective to do long runs of studio shows in small facilities. (Think of all the ITV2/BBC Three/E4 spin off shows - Strictly Dance Fever on Three, Big Brother's Little Brother, The Xtra Factor etc.)

However these are still quite "big gigs" - and there are still a LOT of people chasing them.

You have to be prepared to put in a lot of hard work, in relatively lowly positions (though I think you have to be wary of exploitation - work experience should be that, not unpaid work with little experience...) The people who get on and progress from these roles are the ones who throw themselves into them enthusiastically, and do the job well, without complaining. You'd be surprised how effective remembering what people like to eat and drink can be!

I suspect that £12,000 may include people who are not fully employed? (i.e. working part-time and freelance) It will also include runners etc.

However I started in the industry well over a decade ago - and earned significantly more than £12k pa then... (And that was in one of the most junior roles available, and an increase on my salary in an engineering area...)

VERY sensible advice. There is a degree of natural selection involved in the knock back process. If you gave up after the first 10, 20, 30, or 50 job applications, then you probably wouldn't have survived in the industry if you HAD got in. And when you get a job, aways remember, there are likely to be at least a hundred people who want it! (So be grateful for it - even if it is heavy on the "Earl Grey, one sugar"...)