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BBC HD Nordic

(November 2008)

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HA
harshy Founding member
noggin posted:
dbl posted:
Is 1440x1080 sort of like 544x576 of the HD world? (If that makes sense)

Sort of - but for a reason.

Until this month the BBC commissioned all their HD shows to be delivered on HDCam tape. HDCam tape is 3:1:1 1440x1080 on-tape. Therefore all non-live shows that the BBC broadcast would have only had a resolution of 1440x1080 - so broadcasting at 1920x1080 would have been pointless, other than for live events (which may have arrived in 1920x1080)

However the BBC are now commissioning for delivery on HDCam SR - which is 1920x1080 4:2:2 - so there is a reason for them to upgrade to 1920x1080 for transmission.

However let's hope they replace their ancient H264 encoder first - as for the bitrate it is running at (16Mbs+) it looks terrible... Other channels are running at much lower rates and look a lot better at full 1920x1080 resolution.

It isn't true that all 1920x1080 channels will look better than 1440x1080 channels though - as bitrate and encoder quaity play a part in picture quality as well as resolution.

A poorly encoded 1920x1080 MPEG2 service at 10Mbs may well look a whole lot worse than a well encoded 1440x1080 H264 service at 15Mbs.


It's starting at 6am tomorrow, its already encrypted in Conax, BBC Prime got replaced by BBC Entertainment and BBC Food got replaced by BBC Lifestyle.
NG
noggin Founding member
Was able to have a look at Thor this weekend. There were two BBC HD Nordic transmissions - one was a test (with real pictures but a test ID), the other was the real channel (i.e. with the correct ID) but with a graphic.

Can't remember what it was showing now! Looked OK (though I was watching on a 1024x720 plasma so couldn't really judge quality)
BA
bilky asko
harshy posted:
bilky asko posted:
harshy posted:
I haven't tuned it in yet, but from's Ste's cap BBC HD Nordic is going to use 1920 x 1980, but BBC HD on Sky uses 1440 x 1080, so technically the Nordic one is going to have a better PQ, is Telenor responsible for the technical aspects of BBC HD, or is BBC sending the signal from London to Telenor is that how's its normally done?


I doubt it's going to be 1920 x 1980...


it is my box tells me its 1920 x 1080 also BBC Knowledge starting on the same day in standard def.


You said 1920x1980 the first time - that was what I was pointing out.
HA
harshy Founding member
bilky asko posted:
harshy posted:
bilky asko posted:
harshy posted:
I haven't tuned it in yet, but from's Ste's cap BBC HD Nordic is going to use 1920 x 1980, but BBC HD on Sky uses 1440 x 1080, so technically the Nordic one is going to have a better PQ, is Telenor responsible for the technical aspects of BBC HD, or is BBC sending the signal from London to Telenor is that how's its normally done?


I doubt it's going to be 1920 x 1980...


it is my box tells me its 1920 x 1080 also BBC Knowledge starting on the same day in standard def.


You said 1920x1980 the first time - that was what I was pointing out.


Sorry that was a typo on my part Embarassed

It's a 24 hour service BTW unlike the UK one but its using the old BBC HD ident, there was a pic of it somewhere on the net but I can't find it now.
NG
noggin Founding member
bilky asko posted:
harshy posted:
I haven't tuned it in yet, but from's Ste's cap BBC HD Nordic is going to use 1920 x 1980, but BBC HD on Sky uses 1440 x 1080, so technically the Nordic one is going to have a better PQ, is Telenor responsible for the technical aspects of BBC HD, or is BBC sending the signal from London to Telenor is that how's its normally done?


I doubt it's going to be 1920 x 1980...


I suspect it depends who is doing the encoding and uplinking (and who is paying for it). If it is being uplinked by Telenor I'd suspect 1920x1080.

The Beeb launched the UK version of BBC HD in 1440x1080 for two possible reasons.

1. They used HDCam as their main TX format until this month - and HDCam is 1440x1080 3:1:1 on tape - so only live content would have had any resolution >1440...
2. Their early H264 encoders (still in use?) are very poor performers in comparison to the current encoders used by neary everyone else - so to get anything approaching acceptable (and they aren't great) HD pictures at the relatively high bit-rate of 18 (now 16.5)Mbs they had to subsample to 1440.

My feeling is that it is mainly 1 with a bit of 2 (as Eurosport HD looked better carrying the Olympics at a lower bit rate but at 1920x1080, than BBC HD did. I concede that backhaul plays a part as well)

Even if the BBC are encoding and/or uplinking BBC HD Nordic - I'd not expect 1440x1080 to be used these days - unless you know different?
HA
harshy Founding member
noggin posted:
bilky asko posted:
harshy posted:
I haven't tuned it in yet, but from's Ste's cap BBC HD Nordic is going to use 1920 x 1980, but BBC HD on Sky uses 1440 x 1080, so technically the Nordic one is going to have a better PQ, is Telenor responsible for the technical aspects of BBC HD, or is BBC sending the signal from London to Telenor is that how's its normally done?


I doubt it's going to be 1920 x 1980...


I suspect it depends who is doing the encoding and uplinking (and who is paying for it). If it is being uplinked by Telenor I'd suspect 1920x1080.

The Beeb launched the UK version of BBC HD in 1440x1080 for two possible reasons.

1. They used HDCam as their main TX format until this month - and HDCam is 1440x1080 3:1:1 on tape - so only live content would have had any resolution >1440...
2. Their early H264 encoders (still in use?) are very poor performers in comparison to the current encoders used by neary everyone else - so to get anything approaching acceptable (and they aren't great) HD pictures at the relatively high bit-rate of 18 (now 16.5)Mbs they had to subsample to 1440.

My feeling is that it is mainly 1 with a bit of 2 (as Eurosport HD looked better carrying the Olympics at a lower bit rate but at 1920x1080, than BBC HD did. I concede that backhaul plays a part as well)

Even if the BBC are encoding and/or uplinking BBC HD Nordic - I'd not expect 1440x1080 to be used these days - unless you know different?


I think Telenor are doing it since the HD transmission is in MPEG2, in fact all their HD Channels are MPEG2!

24 days later

NW
nwtv2003
I don't like dragging up old topics, but this is the closest to I could find.

But I was quite surprised the other day when I recieved Planet Earth on Blu-ray instead of the normal BBC DVD ident, there was the old BBC HD ident on instead, which I've seen for the first time on an HD TV and it looks and sounds stunning. Shame they switched to the newer ident.

What ident does the Nordic version use? I'm sure I've seen the Australian BBC HD use the old one.
RE
remlap
Every 2Entertain Blu-Ray so far ive gotten has the old BBC HD ident, I am hoping further releases are okay now Woolies has gone.

Silly question to ask I don't understand why BBC HD does not alternate between the two, the Atlantis one is already boring.
NW
nwtv2003
remlap posted:
Every 2Entertain Blu-Ray so far ive gotten has the old BBC HD ident, I am hoping further releases are okay now Woolies has gone.


It should be OK, 2Entertain was the only part of Woolies that was actually making any money, BBC Worldwide are most likely to buyout Woolies share of the company, which could mean the end of 2Entertain brand as it would mean that BBCW would have 100% control.
RE
Reboot
nwtv2003 posted:
remlap posted:
Every 2Entertain Blu-Ray so far ive gotten has the old BBC HD ident, I am hoping further releases are okay now Woolies has gone.


It should be OK, 2Entertain was the only part of Woolies that was actually making any money, BBC Worldwide are most likely to buyout Woolies share of the company, which could mean the end of 2Entertain brand as it would mean that BBCW would have 100% control.

I don't know about that - 2|Entertain isn't just BBC WW's old DVD division, it also incorporates VCI. Would they really put BBC branding on non-BBC DVDs?
HA
harshy Founding member
nwtv2003 posted:
I don't like dragging up old topics, but this is the closest to I could find.

But I was quite surprised the other day when I recieved Planet Earth on Blu-ray instead of the normal BBC DVD ident, there was the old BBC HD ident on instead, which I've seen for the first time on an HD TV and it looks and sounds stunning. Shame they switched to the newer ident.

What ident does the Nordic version use? I'm sure I've seen the Australian BBC HD use the old one.


The Nordic version uses the old black ident, with the old stings, why don't they use the new one, it makes no sense at all.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uCgTk2CdMeA

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