DV
Well there's the expected 5th Service in 2013. The most likely 'winner' in the broadcasting political climate as of now would seem to be E4 imo. If Film4 could get it's hands on a fuller roster of movies then it'll have a chance. I can't see the BBC, ITV or Five being serious about an application.
NG
I wouldn't be surprised to see a second BBC HD service - mirroring the analogue PSB spectrum (BBC One, BBC Two, ITV1, C4, Five on analogue - BBC HD x 2, ITV1 HD, C4HD and Five HD in HD?) - particularly once shows like EastEnders, Casualty and Holby move to HD and fill the schedules.
noggin
Founding member
Well there's the expected 5th Service in 2013. The most likely 'winner' in the broadcasting political climate as of now would seem to be E4 imo. If Film4 could get it's hands on a fuller roster of movies then it'll have a chance. I can't see the BBC, ITV or Five being serious about an application.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a second BBC HD service - mirroring the analogue PSB spectrum (BBC One, BBC Two, ITV1, C4, Five on analogue - BBC HD x 2, ITV1 HD, C4HD and Five HD in HD?) - particularly once shows like EastEnders, Casualty and Holby move to HD and fill the schedules.
DV
Just can't see it happening, unfortunately due to the BBC issues. The Executive and Trust seem at one in the reduce the Corporation campaign, let alone the other industry parties angst and potential Government intervention. Would love to see it, don't misunderstand me, but............. etc.
NG
It will be interesting to see what happens to the transponder BBC HD is currently on on 2D. Since they've reduced the bitrate of BBC HD from 18.5Mbs to 9.7Mbs over the last 4 years, there is presumably space for another H264 HD stream there (assuming it stays DVB-S to accommodate the two BBC One SD services for BBC East (West) and BBC Channel Islands rather than switching to DVB-S2 allowing a 3rd and possibly a 4th?) Sure the BBC could offer ITV1 HD, Five HD or C4 HD a FTA 2D home on Freesat - but it would allow a second BBC HD stream to appear - and once it is on Freesat (and almost certainly cable) they have to keep the platform playing field level.
HD is like colour - it will soon be the norm - particularly once Freeview HD IDTVs start selling and HD Ready TVs become proper HDTVs.
With more and more HD production at the BBC it will soon be possible (within 12 months) to do a full BBC One HD prime-time simulcast I suspect - which would leave BBC Two, Three and Four with nowhere for their HD shows to be broadcast (particularly acquisitions which have to be simulcast rather than timeshifted)
noggin
Founding member
Just can't see it happening, unfortunately due to the BBC issues. The Executive and Trust seem at one in the reduce the Corporation campaign, let alone the other industry parties angst and potential Government intervention. Would love to see it, don't misunderstand me, but............. etc.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the transponder BBC HD is currently on on 2D. Since they've reduced the bitrate of BBC HD from 18.5Mbs to 9.7Mbs over the last 4 years, there is presumably space for another H264 HD stream there (assuming it stays DVB-S to accommodate the two BBC One SD services for BBC East (West) and BBC Channel Islands rather than switching to DVB-S2 allowing a 3rd and possibly a 4th?) Sure the BBC could offer ITV1 HD, Five HD or C4 HD a FTA 2D home on Freesat - but it would allow a second BBC HD stream to appear - and once it is on Freesat (and almost certainly cable) they have to keep the platform playing field level.
HD is like colour - it will soon be the norm - particularly once Freeview HD IDTVs start selling and HD Ready TVs become proper HDTVs.
With more and more HD production at the BBC it will soon be possible (within 12 months) to do a full BBC One HD prime-time simulcast I suspect - which would leave BBC Two, Three and Four with nowhere for their HD shows to be broadcast (particularly acquisitions which have to be simulcast rather than timeshifted)
PD
BBC HD showed Heroes last Saturday 30mins before BBC-2 Wales as the latter put The Bubble on at 10pm, so I guess for contract wording for imports, the BBC work on England schedules (I find the national opts and the HD channel simulcast thing bizarre at times, but realise funding different HD channels for the nations would be both expensive and, for the few programmes affected, a waste of transponder space).
Boy, the above looks odd reading it back, but I think it makes sense.
Back home in Cardiff we get both Wenvoe and Mendip, so we've two (well, four) lots of retuning taking place.
(particularly acquisitions which have to be simulcast rather than timeshifted)
BBC HD showed Heroes last Saturday 30mins before BBC-2 Wales as the latter put The Bubble on at 10pm, so I guess for contract wording for imports, the BBC work on England schedules (I find the national opts and the HD channel simulcast thing bizarre at times, but realise funding different HD channels for the nations would be both expensive and, for the few programmes affected, a waste of transponder space).
Boy, the above looks odd reading it back, but I think it makes sense.
Back home in Cardiff we get both Wenvoe and Mendip, so we've two (well, four) lots of retuning taking place.
NG
BBC HD showed Heroes last Saturday 30mins before BBC-2 Wales as the latter put The Bubble on at 10pm, so I guess for contract wording for imports, the BBC work on England schedules (I find the national opts and the HD channel simulcast thing bizarre at times, but realise funding different HD channels for the nations would be both expensive and, for the few programmes affected, a waste of transponder space).
Boy, the above looks odd reading it back, but I think it makes sense.
Back home in Cardiff we get both Wenvoe and Mendip, so we've two (well, four) lots of retuning taking place.
I suspect that the BBC have negotiated that the regional variation timeshifts count as a single repeat - and just as you could watch BBC Two England in Wales on DSat, you can watch BBC HD. A slight 'fiddle round the edges' I guess.
What I do wonder is whether a straight simulcast of BBC One in HD (possibly just in the evenings?) would be pretty easy to introduce? Would the Public Value Testing and "New Service" stuff hold quite as much sway when the content is being produced in HD, and the broadcast capacity exists on DSat?
You'd probably need to run three services - which would get insanely complicated - (BBC One HD DSat/DCab, BBC HD DSat/DCab - which would be BBC Two/Three/Four HD content and BBC HD DTT - which would be as now, sourced from all 4 channels?)
noggin
Founding member
(particularly acquisitions which have to be simulcast rather than timeshifted)
BBC HD showed Heroes last Saturday 30mins before BBC-2 Wales as the latter put The Bubble on at 10pm, so I guess for contract wording for imports, the BBC work on England schedules (I find the national opts and the HD channel simulcast thing bizarre at times, but realise funding different HD channels for the nations would be both expensive and, for the few programmes affected, a waste of transponder space).
Boy, the above looks odd reading it back, but I think it makes sense.
Back home in Cardiff we get both Wenvoe and Mendip, so we've two (well, four) lots of retuning taking place.
I suspect that the BBC have negotiated that the regional variation timeshifts count as a single repeat - and just as you could watch BBC Two England in Wales on DSat, you can watch BBC HD. A slight 'fiddle round the edges' I guess.
What I do wonder is whether a straight simulcast of BBC One in HD (possibly just in the evenings?) would be pretty easy to introduce? Would the Public Value Testing and "New Service" stuff hold quite as much sway when the content is being produced in HD, and the broadcast capacity exists on DSat?
You'd probably need to run three services - which would get insanely complicated - (BBC One HD DSat/DCab, BBC HD DSat/DCab - which would be BBC Two/Three/Four HD content and BBC HD DTT - which would be as now, sourced from all 4 channels?)
TR
Any second HD channel will appear longer after project Canvas is already streaming BBC HD shows on-demand to set top boxes. I don't think a second BBC HD channel would be necessary.
BR
Freeview HD has basically put a stop to that. If they'd taken the sensible option and made Freesat the HD option for free to air TV I'm sure BBC HD2 would be on the cards sooner rather than later.
I don't really get that though. It's like saying digital television is the way to go if you want colour - analogue will just provide black and white. In a few years, that would seem ridiculous, just as in a few years, your proposition for Freeview being SD-only will seem strange when HD becomes the norm (I imagine).
That is the problem - as you say long term HD has to happen, but this solution doesn't really think beyond 4-5 main channels, and the different transmission system means to switch everything to HD will effectively mean a second DSO within the decade - but then we're told 3D is the next thing and we should all be wearing cardboard glasses to watch TV.
It's basically mismanagement of Freeview which has never planned for anything other than the short term which is creating these problems. It should never have been allowed to get to a situation where every bit of capacity was sold off to the highest bidder for as much money as possible when in order for Freeview to future proof itself, they really needed to hold some of it back for future expansion. As things stand in order to switch to HD services will need to be cut - and unfortunately it's not the filler channels which are making the sacrifice.
And of course government plans to sell off every spare bit of frequency following DSO, plus no desire to get full Freeview coverage to the 10% or so of the nation who won't get all 6 muxes, means Freeviews expansion options are limited in the future.
I hope that Eastenders doesn't go HD. The problem of a fixed point on BBC HD nightly for it would be difficult, if not insurmountable during key events. If (and I stress if) BBC gets a second HD channel, maybe, but now it's a non starter.
Freeview HD has basically put a stop to that. If they'd taken the sensible option and made Freesat the HD option for free to air TV I'm sure BBC HD2 would be on the cards sooner rather than later.
I don't really get that though. It's like saying digital television is the way to go if you want colour - analogue will just provide black and white. In a few years, that would seem ridiculous, just as in a few years, your proposition for Freeview being SD-only will seem strange when HD becomes the norm (I imagine).
That is the problem - as you say long term HD has to happen, but this solution doesn't really think beyond 4-5 main channels, and the different transmission system means to switch everything to HD will effectively mean a second DSO within the decade - but then we're told 3D is the next thing and we should all be wearing cardboard glasses to watch TV.
It's basically mismanagement of Freeview which has never planned for anything other than the short term which is creating these problems. It should never have been allowed to get to a situation where every bit of capacity was sold off to the highest bidder for as much money as possible when in order for Freeview to future proof itself, they really needed to hold some of it back for future expansion. As things stand in order to switch to HD services will need to be cut - and unfortunately it's not the filler channels which are making the sacrifice.
And of course government plans to sell off every spare bit of frequency following DSO, plus no desire to get full Freeview coverage to the 10% or so of the nation who won't get all 6 muxes, means Freeviews expansion options are limited in the future.
Last edited by Brekkie on 9 March 2010 1:00pm
GS
*raspberry*
The USA had colour first. and look how poor that was.
First doesn't always mean best.
Gavin Scott
Founding member
I live in the States, and almost
every single channel
is available in High-Definition. We had ESPN in HD since 2004. We even had the first ever HD broadcast-a Space Shuttle launch- in 1999!
*raspberry*
The USA had colour first. and look how poor that was.
First doesn't always mean best.