Unless the BBC decide to show one of their co-commissions with an international broadcaster on iPlayer first, it's very unlikely until catch-up VOD from linear broadcasters has the type of audiences linear tv gets. iPlayer is on the rise though and a brand that most UK viewers understand.
I don't think the BBC co-commission or co-produce much, if any, foreign language drama though - it's all acquired.
Sprial is in association with BBC Four. They even get co-credits.
Unless the BBC decide to show one of their co-commissions with an international broadcaster on iPlayer first, it's very unlikely until catch-up VOD from linear broadcasters has the type of audiences linear tv gets. iPlayer is on the rise though and a brand that most UK viewers understand.
I don't think the BBC co-commission or co-produce much, if any, foreign language drama though - it's all acquired.
Sprial is in association with BBC Four. They even get co-credits.
Yes - Spiral may be an odd-one-out, unless they get some association credits for the subtitled version?
In the US are the dramas on Hulu or Hulu+ (which is a subscription service).
Both Korean and European dramas are on Hulu and I can watch them for free. But if you want to watch them on Hulu via Smart TVs, video game consoles, you'll need Hulu plus subscription. But for me I can watch my K-drama on Hulu for free on PC/laptop and on my smartphone. Ironically, most of your dramas from BBC that are on Hulu require a Hulu plus subscription (which frustrate me, because I like some of your dramas).
I'm glad I brought up Hulu, because I remember back in 2010/2011 Hulu abandon plans to launch in the UK:
and now few years later, European dramas get popular in the UK and looking back at this. I would say it was a big mistake for the UK to not allowed Hulu. If Hulu had launch in the UK, a lot of foreign dramas may have been able to gain much more fanbases in the UK. Hulu helped foreign drama to gain audiences in the US, it could've been the same thing for the UK.
I think the main difference between the UK/US with regards to Hulu is that it's a great vehicle for the mainstream networks to get their programming on a unified brand which is either ad funded or subscription based,, while as the UK broadcasters have all developed their own ad funded VOD services.
The three main subscription services in the UK are Netflix, NOW TV (Sky) and Amazon Prime Instant Video, while iPlayer is almost universal on smart tv's. Even a cheap as chips supermarket tv will come with iPlayer. Netflix is also quite common on most sets.
I would say it was a big mistake for the UK to not allowed Hulu. If Hulu had launch in the UK, a lot of foreign dramas may have been able to gain much more fanbases in the UK. Hulu helped foreign drama to gain audiences in the US, it could've been the same thing for the UK.
I don't think it was a case of 'not allowed' - it was just that Hulu were too late. Hulu built its success, at least initially, by offering catch up services for most (but not all) of the US main networks. That's what got it to be popular and then allowed it to develop and widen its remit.
In the UK the broadcasters launched their own in-house catch-up services - iPlayer, ITVPlayer, 4oD (now All4), Demand5 etc. - so no need for a Hulu-style setup.
In the UK we have a richer history of showing non-English language drama on our networks than the US - so it's a different situation. I remember watching subtitled films and TV series growing up. (Brazilian telenovelas and French soaps on Channel Four, art house films and Heimat on BBC Two etc.) Latterly BBC Four has developed this (as have ITV to a lesser degree) - and it is now a key part of the channel brand - albeit European focused. So in some ways we are in a better situation - as we have non-English language content on subscription-free network OTA services here. Film Four (a subscription-free OTA service operated by Channel Four) also carries non-English language movies, including Japanese and Korean stuff.
Netflix UK also carry some foreign language stuff (both TV and movies), whilst Sky's catch up service allows you to watch their foreign language stuff that is carried on Sky Arts. The Sky platform offers this in very high quality.
I don't think it was a case of 'not allowed' - it was just that Hulu were too late. Hulu built its success, at least initially, by offering catch up services for most (but not all) of the US main networks. That's what got it to be popular and then allowed it to develop and widen its remit.
In the UK the broadcasters launched their own in-house catch-up services - iPlayer, ITVPlayer, 4oD (now All4), Demand5 etc. - so no need for a Hulu-style setup.
So it is possible for K-dramas and East Asian dramas to be stream on those VOD service as an alternative source.
Quote:
In the UK we have a richer history of showing non-English language drama on our networks than the US - so it's a different situation. I remember watching subtitled films and TV series growing up. (Brazilian telenovelas and French soaps on Channel Four, art house films and Heimat on BBC Two etc.) Latterly BBC Four has developed this (as have ITV to a lesser degree) - and it is now a key part of the channel brand - albeit European focused. So in some ways we are in a better situation - as we have non-English language content on subscription-free network OTA services here. Film Four (a subscription-free OTA service operated by Channel Four) also carries non-English language movies, including Japanese and Korean stuff.
Netflix UK also carry some foreign language stuff (both TV and movies), whilst Sky's catch up service allows you to watch their foreign language stuff that is carried on Sky Arts. The Sky platform offers this in very high quality.
Yes that's why as an American, I respect you guys more. You guys can handle foreign-language stuff better then American. That's why I raised my hope that Korean dramas can find it's way in the UK other then Viki, and some limited service.
There's one more thing I forgot to address:
Quote:
Plus, if the drama hasn't been subtitled into English, there are likely to be some hefty subtitling costs that the Korean studio selling the series would need to pass on.
I do have one idea to have UK broadcasters to save money over subtitling cost.
Borrow the US English subtitle for the drama and "tweak" it to accommodate UK viewers
(as in removing common American word that are not familiar to UK viewers, and replace it a UK equivalent). I mean I know MBC America, KBS America, and Dramafever do subtitle for their dramas. So BBC can ask KBS to include the English subtitle from KBS America and BBC can make some "slight modification" to the subtitle so it wouldn't alienate UK viewers if they see American English. ITV can do the same for MBC's Korean drama.
The only improvement I would love to see for the UK if they showed K-dramas:
-K-dramas and East Asian dramas will have soundtrack playing in there when people watch the drama, is it possible for the UK broadcaster to put a "pop up box" with the name of the song and the artist name whenever a soundtrack is playing in the drama? Because if anyone in the UK was watching a K-drama on TV and they fell in love with the soundtrack from the drama, they may want to know the name of the song and the artist that sang the song in case if they want to buy the soundtrack for that drama (I know a local H-mart in UK that sell K-pop CDs and K-drama soundtrack CDs), so a "pop-up" box would really help. If possible it would also be nice if the UK broadcaster can add the English subtitle to the song playing in the drama. For those of you that don't know about the soundtrack in K-drama, watch this video:
Yes the soundtrack from K-drama is one of the reason why K-pop (not only PSY) was able to get popular worldwide. It does also factor why K-music are popular in Latin America, Middle East, and parts of Eastern Europe.
UK viewers would be fine with US subtitles provided they are done will in US English. Italian drama 1992 suffers with this problem where they are clearly translated by an Italian who learnt American English.
Incidentally I wonder if 1992 would ever have been made if it wasn't for the addition of the audiences on Sky Germany and UK.
So it is possible for K-dramas and East Asian dramas to be stream on those VOD service as an alternative source.
Technically possible yes - but I doubt the economics make sense.
Quote:
I do have one idea to have UK broadcasters to save money over subtitling cost.
Borrow the US English subtitle for the drama and "tweak" it to accommodate UK viewers
(as in removing common American word that are not familiar to UK viewers, and replace it a UK equivalent). I mean I know MBC America, KBS America, and Dramafever do subtitle for their dramas. So BBC can ask KBS to include the English subtitle from KBS America and BBC can make some "slight modification" to the subtitle so it wouldn't alienate UK viewers if they see American English. ITV can do the same for MBC's Korean drama.
US English subtitles wouldn't really cause a problem - we're used to watching US drama so 'get' US English (Car Hood = Bonnet, Car Trunk = Boot, Elevator = Lift, Sidewalk = Pavement etc.) in the main.
It's more of a problem with literature (you often get different translations of non-English language novels for the US and UK markets.) but for TV it's fine.
I think you are seeing BBC/ITV and KBS/MBC links that in reality aren't there for programme sales. If there are any links between US and Korean broadcasters they will be for news gathering. There are no real international links for drama and factual programming other than co-pro deals (that may be for a specific genre, like natural history, or a specific series even) Shows are acquired on a series-by-series basis. The BBC sharing news with KBS won't mean the BBC is more likely to buy a series from KBS than MBC. Also I don't know about Korea, but lots of BBC dramas aren't actually made by the BBC but are commissioned from independent production companies, who may or may not own the overseas rights (as distinct to the BBC owning the rights), though they may contract BBC Worldwide to market their drama to overseas purchasers.
Any purchase of non-English language content would probably include the delivery of a pre-subtitled master, as the UK broadcasters don't soft-sub/closed-sub non-English language content, they hard-sub/open-sub it. The BBC wouldn't be able to modify the subtitles unless they asked for a clean master, separate subtitle file and then took the show into an edit (at extra cost) to burn in revised subtitles.
I suspect the BBC would expect a pre-subtitled master, with non-English language content subtitles burned in, and a separate subtitle data file for any English language content (which wouldn't have burned in subtitles) for broadcast as optional subtitles for the hard of hearing.
I suspect the reality is that European subtitled drama will be more popular than Far-Eastern drama in the UK - because culturally we are closer to other European nations as a country? We routinely go on holiday to these places - and in some cases (particularly the Nordic countries), share a common heritage and, to a degree, culture. They are different, but not too different.
US English subtitles wouldn't really cause a problem - we're used to watching US drama so 'get' US English (Car Hood = Bonnet, Car Trunk = Boot, Elevator = Lift, Sidewalk = Pavement etc.) in the main.
It's more of a problem with literature (you often get different translations of non-English language novels for the US and UK markets.) but for TV it's fine.
That's nice to know. Some US English sub won't alienate the UK viewers.
Quote:
I think you are seeing BBC/ITV and KBS/MBC links that in reality aren't there for programme sales. If there are any links between US and Korean broadcasters they will be for news gathering. There are no real international links for drama and factual programming other than co-pro deals (that may be for a specific genre, like natural history, or a specific series even) Shows are acquired on a series-by-series basis. The BBC sharing news with KBS won't mean the BBC is more likely to buy a series from KBS than MBC. Also I don't know about Korea, but lots of BBC dramas aren't actually made by the BBC but are commissioned from independent production companies, who may or may not own the overseas rights (as distinct to the BBC owning the rights), though they may contract BBC Worldwide to market their drama to overseas purchasers.
Actually, I've seen MBC, KBS, SBS has used their foreign partner to have their dramas broadcasted overseas. For example, in Latin America and USA, SBS foreign partner is Telemundo. SBS and Telemundo signed a deal to showed Korean dramas for the Spanish-speaking market in US and Latin America. A few years later, Telemundo got an award from South Korea's KOCCA for contributing Korean culture.
Quote:
Any purchase of non-English language content would probably include the delivery of a pre-subtitled master, as the UK broadcasters don't soft-sub/closed-sub non-English language content, they hard-sub/open-sub it. The BBC wouldn't be able to modify the subtitles unless they asked for a clean master, separate subtitle file and then took the show into an edit (at extra cost) to burn in revised subtitles.
I suspect the BBC would expect a pre-subtitled master, with non-English language content subtitles burned in, and a separate subtitle data file for any English language content (which wouldn't have burned in subtitles) for broadcast as optional subtitles for the hard of hearing.
If it will help, maybe the UK broadcasters can work with Dramafever to maybe make less thing complicated. Maybe BBC, and ITV could have MBC America and KBS America to modify English sub for the UK viewer. Cheaper for the BBC and ITV. I've even read articles (I need to find it) and research paper on Hallyu/Korean Wave (need to find it too) how Korean companies help and cover the cost for subtitling dramas for overseas viewers.
Quote:
Technically possible yes - but I doubt the economics make sense.
I suspect the reality is that European subtitled drama will be more popular than Far-Eastern drama in the UK - because culturally we are closer to other European nations as a country? We routinely go on holiday to these places - and in some cases (particularly the Nordic countries), share a common heritage and, to a degree, culture. They are different, but not too different.
Why not? I mean the same thing was said about USA, and yet K-dramas was able to grow like crazy. I think the same can be done in the UK. I forgot to mention there is a fanbase for K-drama in the UK, London K-drama club. They have Facebook, and Twitter. The London Korean drama Club was formed last year. So I do expect this club to grow.
But back to K-drama and USA. K-dramas was able to grow in the USA without network TVs (ie: CBS, NBC, ABC, TNT, TBS, etc...). Long time ago before Dramafever, Hulu, and Netflix became important for K-drama to grow in the US. We used to had 2 channels to show K-dramas (and dramas from East Asia): AZN Television, and ImaginAsian. These channels are no longer on TV, and they become defunct, and yet K-drama fanbases in the US grew thanks to online streaming site and started to gain non-Asian viewers even with the demise of AZN Television and ImaginAsian. To show you that K-dramas was able to grow in the US without network TV or heavy mainstream advertising, over 18+ million people from multicultural society watched K-dramas online and I'm not making this up:
If diverse people in the US are able to enjoy Korean dramas, then what's stopping the UK from doing the same. I mean isn't the UK ethnically diverse (and also more open-minded). This is what I noticed (and got report) from the UK:
-Korean films are more popular in the UK then in the US, probably because from my observation that the UK appreciate foreign films then Americans.
-K-pop concerts do sell out in the UK (ie: Bigbang, and CNBlue was able to sell out concerts in the UK)
-2009 article stated that Korean studies in European universities (that include the UK) has seen jump in enrollment
-BBC4, ITV3, Channel 4, and Sky Arts able to show European dramas with no problem. So this indicate showing K-dramas on TV is possible.
-Viki and Dramafever are available in the UK, but the catalog is smaller then what we get in the US and some dramas like IRIS is not avaliable in the UK. I believe it's avaliable on Netflix if setting is set to USA.
If K-dramas can get popular in the US, then it shouldn't be hard to replicate this in the UK.
EDIT: I forgot to add that I remember seeing this London K-drama club's Twitter a few weeks back:
"South Korea is close to achieving a breakthrough that will open up Korean shows to US and European markets" @seojangho@CJnDrama
— London K-Drama Club (@KDramaClubLDN) May 11, 2015
I wonder if this will include the UK?
Last edited by mdo7 on 1 June 2015 3:37am - 3 times in total