TV Home Forum

BBC 4 to be axed?

(September 2015)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
LL
London Lite Founding member
I doubt the politicos would appreciate being relegated to a lower number down the EPG for DP and Newsnight.
RI
Rijowhi
This isn't what I want at all but if a reduced BBC is a must I would go for a four-channel option, with extra serviced via Connected TV. All services have to make compromises.

BBC1 - pretty much as now

BBC2 - weekdays 6pm-6am, weekends 12noon-6am. Can extend hours for sport when necessary
As others have said it's only useful for sport in daytime so during the weeks it's daytime hours are used by CBeebies, as they largely were up until a few years ago. The station is basically BBC2 minus BBC3 + BBC4, with BBC4 content incorporated into the schedules by losing some of the "daytime" content which has crept into the 7pm hour and moving Newsnight to the News Channel.

BBC3 - daily 7pm-4am. A slightly broader remit than currently taking on some BBC2 comedy content and also being used to give flagship BBC1/2 content a repeat airing. Timeshares with CBBC

BBC News Channel - it remains and is boosted with content from BBC2, specifically the Daily Politics at midday (11.30am Wed) and Newsnight at 10.30pm. I don't want to get into rota details but three and a half hour shifts broken up by BBC World content at 10.30am, 3.30pm and 8.30pm might just work.

CBeebies - weekdays 6am to 6pm, weekends 6am to 12noon
Slightly reduced hours - I know the bedtime hour is popular but it has to give I'm afraid. Similarly with limited bandwidth BBC2 (and an adult audience) is more deserving of the space at weekends, while there would also be flexibility for BBC2 to expand into the daytime hours as required.

CBBC - daily 6am to 7pm
Pretty much as now, but again it's hour can be reduced when live events dictate it. In the event of BBC2 needing to broadcast all day CBBC would air 12noon-7pm, with CBeebies airing in the morning. I'm assuming that is technically possible.

Connected Red Button Services
A TV red button stream would still be useful as a 5th stream and potentially limit disruption to the kids services, but with or without it there would be the current BBC Sport service, the iPlayer and proposed iPlay childrens service, a revamped BBC News service (it doesn't seem to have had the love that the sport app and iPlayer have had), and notably Democracy Live would replace BBC Parliament, offering viewers a choice of live coverage rather than the one stream. I'm afraid guys this might mean an end to your election reruns, although no reason why they couldn't be made available via the iPlayer.

The BBC would also look to move towards HD only, dropping one of it's muxes. This obviously requires regional investment and is easier said than done - probably need to work with ITV & C4 to push it forward and perhaps trade HD space for a legacy SD slot for BBC1/2 for a few years until a full HD switchover.


Now my turn...if things have gotta give...all BBC TV channels would be in English only so no BBC Alba etc...

BBC1: As now, General Entertainment Channel.
BBC2: The alternative BBC channel mixing content that currently screens on BBC2, BBC3 and BBC4.
BBC News: As now
BBC Parliament: As now
CBBC: As now
CBeebies: As now
BBC Online: Offering more new online only shows than current. More archive content too.

BBC Radio 1: As present except with extra content aimed at 1Xtra's audience.
BBC Radio 2: As present except with extra programming aimed at 6 Music's audience.
BBC Radio 3: As present.
BBC Radio 4: As present.
BBC Radio 5 Local: A new FM/Digital based version of Radio 5 Live with Local opt-outs.

BBC World Service: Some Asian Network programming merged into the BBC World Service stations. BBC World News merged with BBC News, with regular international updates amongst the UK based programming.

Disclaimer: I know this isn't perfect...although the BBC has it's faults, I feel for the people having to make cuts for real (though they are probably getting paid well for it!).
SP
Steve in Pudsey
I think any further scheme to close linear channels and replace them with online versions needs to come with a big caveat of only happening once there is universal access to affordable high speed broadband.
NE
Neil__

CBeebies - weekdays 6am to 6pm, weekends 6am to 12noon
Slightly reduced hours - I know the bedtime hour is popular but it has to give I'm afraid. Similarly with limited bandwidth BBC2 (and an adult audience) is more deserving of the space at weekends, while there would also be flexibility for BBC2 to expand into the daytime hours as required.

CBBC - daily 6am to 7pm
Pretty much as now, but again it's hour can be reduced when live events dictate it. In the event of BBC2 needing to broadcast all day CBBC would air 12noon-7pm, with CBeebies airing in the morning. I'm assuming that is technically possible.

Whatever anyone thinks of the rest of your suggestions, there's no way CBeebies would be cut down - it's incredibly popular (more so than CBBC?).
RI
Rijowhi

CBeebies - weekdays 6am to 6pm, weekends 6am to 12noon
Slightly reduced hours - I know the bedtime hour is popular but it has to give I'm afraid. Similarly with limited bandwidth BBC2 (and an adult audience) is more deserving of the space at weekends, while there would also be flexibility for BBC2 to expand into the daytime hours as required.

CBBC - daily 6am to 7pm
Pretty much as now, but again it's hour can be reduced when live events dictate it. In the event of BBC2 needing to broadcast all day CBBC would air 12noon-7pm, with CBeebies airing in the morning. I'm assuming that is technically possible.

Whatever anyone thinks of the rest of your suggestions, there's no way CBeebies would be cut down - it's incredibly popular (more so than CBBC?).


Sadly I think there is a chance at least one of the Children's channels will be closed...though it doesn't make sense (especially with CBeebies).
HO
House

CBeebies - weekdays 6am to 6pm, weekends 6am to 12noon
Slightly reduced hours - I know the bedtime hour is popular but it has to give I'm afraid. Similarly with limited bandwidth BBC2 (and an adult audience) is more deserving of the space at weekends, while there would also be flexibility for BBC2 to expand into the daytime hours as required.

CBBC - daily 6am to 7pm
Pretty much as now, but again it's hour can be reduced when live events dictate it. In the event of BBC2 needing to broadcast all day CBBC would air 12noon-7pm, with CBeebies airing in the morning. I'm assuming that is technically possible.

Whatever anyone thinks of the rest of your suggestions, there's no way CBeebies would be cut down - it's incredibly popular (more so than CBBC?).


And frankly you could make the argument that (of the wider population, at present) it's the elderly and very young who benefit most from linear TV as a delivery mechanism over more complicated on-demand/streaming/device-based service.

I do wonder how much the BBC could save by removing certain assumptions - like that main TV channels need to be 24/7.

I challenge anyone on this forum to defend the continuing commission of Doctors, for example. Especially when you consider the BBC could go back to the beginning and get the 13:40 slot filled at a fraction of the cost of producing new episodes, which are lazily written and painfully repetitive in nature. I suspect if BBC One's daytime schedule (excluding news, pre-17:00) was exclusively repeats of both recent and archive programming from BBC One, Two and Four in prime time viewing figures wouldn't fall that much. And provided enough people were watching to justify the cost of transmission, I don't see how the BBC can make the argument to save dreadful daytime content simply because it's highly watched.

I can easily imagine a scenario in which BBC Two becomes BBC One's more serious counterpart, taking on large sections of BBC News/BBC World News content between 9:00 and 17:00, with programmes like Question Time, (at an earlier time) and Panorama from BBC One, and the better commissions from BBC World News. BBC Two and BBC News effectively share content (and production costs) for most of the day when BBC News is most watched, more easily justified and where breaking news is most frequent, and BBC News morphes into BBC World News the rest of the time. And BBC Two shuts down between midnight and 9am/ simulcasts World News.

In return, BBC One should become a more upmarket version of what it and BBC Two already do. You can keep Eastenders and the One Show, but need to justify what it is Holby City achieves that Casualty doesn't (or vice versa). I agree with John Wittingdale (agh) that programmes like The Voice don't belong on the BBC - for me, because it neither satisfies a 'doing something different, doing something well, or doing something really loved' criteria. Whereas Strictly Come Dancing and GBBO are programmes that simply wouldn't have been commissioned (in a recognisable form) by rival channels, and would likely be cited by many viewers as reasons to support the BBC. At the same time the BBC needs to feel more confident putting programmes like Mock the Week and QI - indisputably successes and value for money - on BBC One and not shy away because average ratings may fall. In an age of on-demand & PVR delivery it would be much better to think of BBC One and Two as the principal commissioning and showcasing of programmes rather than the ultimate determination of success, one principally for entertainment, comedy and drama, the other for news, documentaries and genuinely nice programmes.

What I can't fathom in all of this, however, is the bizarre focus on network news bulletins. If ever there's a broadcast news medium that is gradually becoming increasingly redundant, it's a twenty five minute collection of reports that have been easily accessible for several hours online, on rolling news and - yes Tony Hall - on mobile.

In short, reduce the BBC News Channel's dedicated output to daytime hours only, close BBC Four (and, in the future, CBBC as a linear channel) and rework BBC One and BBC Two to seriously bolster the quality of the BBC's output with a clear mandate for each channel and cutting some of the useless filler better suited to Channel 5.
DT
DTV

CBeebies - weekdays 6am to 6pm, weekends 6am to 12noon
Slightly reduced hours - I know the bedtime hour is popular but it has to give I'm afraid. Similarly with limited bandwidth BBC2 (and an adult audience) is more deserving of the space at weekends, while there would also be flexibility for BBC2 to expand into the daytime hours as required.

CBBC - daily 6am to 7pm
Pretty much as now, but again it's hour can be reduced when live events dictate it. In the event of BBC2 needing to broadcast all day CBBC would air 12noon-7pm, with CBeebies airing in the morning. I'm assuming that is technically possible.

Whatever anyone thinks of the rest of your suggestions, there's no way CBeebies would be cut down - it's incredibly popular (more so than CBBC?).


Sadly I think there is a chance at least one of the Children's channels will be closed...though it doesn't make sense (especially with CBeebies).


I think there is a greater chance of them being merged - CBBC could have 0600-0900, CBeebies 0900-1530 and CBBC from 1530 to close maybe with a CBeebies Bedtime hour/halfhour. If one channel had to go, from an economic point of view, it would have to be CBBC which has a budget 3 times that of CBeebies and about 1/3 of the viewers. It would be a real tragedy though to cut one service as children of all ages presumably benefit from advert free television plus the BBC seem to be the only children's TV producers who don't pump out constant cr*p.
NG
noggin Founding member

CBeebies - weekdays 6am to 6pm, weekends 6am to 12noon
Slightly reduced hours - I know the bedtime hour is popular but it has to give I'm afraid. Similarly with limited bandwidth BBC2 (and an adult audience) is more deserving of the space at weekends, while there would also be flexibility for BBC2 to expand into the daytime hours as required.

CBBC - daily 6am to 7pm
Pretty much as now, but again it's hour can be reduced when live events dictate it. In the event of BBC2 needing to broadcast all day CBBC would air 12noon-7pm, with CBeebies airing in the morning. I'm assuming that is technically possible.

Whatever anyone thinks of the rest of your suggestions, there's no way CBeebies would be cut down - it's incredibly popular (more so than CBBC?).


Sadly I think there is a chance at least one of the Children's channels will be closed...though it doesn't make sense (especially with CBeebies).


Though the question is always asked - during term time (which I know varies across the UK) - who is watching the CBBC channel between 0900 and 1500 (rough estimate of school hours) when its target audience is in school? (I know people can be off school with long term illnesses, or short term, but is this channel aimed at them?)

CBeebies I can understand - it's aimed largely at pre-schoolers - but CBBC? Why does that operate during the day during term time? Surely 1500-1900 and 05/0600-0900 make more sense during weekday term time?
CH
chris
House posted:

What I can't fathom in all of this, however, is the bizarre focus on network news bulletins. If ever there's a broadcast news medium that is gradually becoming increasingly redundant, it's a twenty five minute collection of reports that have been easily accessible for several hours online, on rolling news and - yes Tony Hall - on mobile.


Just ignore the fact it's still the way most people access their news then? Far more popular than the News Channel. ITV News bulletins are also more popular.

I don't see network bulletins leaving our screens for a very long time.
DT
DTV
House posted:

What I can't fathom in all of this, however, is the bizarre focus on network news bulletins. If ever there's a broadcast news medium that is gradually becoming increasingly redundant, it's a twenty five minute collection of reports that have been easily accessible for several hours online, on rolling news and - yes Tony Hall - on mobile.


Is there actually evidence for this? I don't think audience figures are any lower for BBC National News Bulletins than they were 10 years ago, particularly not BBC Breakfast which have recently increased (although that is primarily ITV's fault). Likewise BBC News Channel hasn't seen any real reduction in viewers, and there hasn't been a drastic fall in the number of viewers of linear television. This whole linear TV is in decline argument is heavily exaggerated, we must hear the phrase 'the end of television as we know it' as often as we hear 'it's the end of two party politics'. Back in the 1920s national newspapers were worried that the BBC carrying news bulletins would mean an end to newspapers within ten years, millions of newspapers are still sold every day in the UK. Today Broadcast news are worried that the internet will mean the end of them within ten years, I doubt it will. People probably won't be getting their news from Twitter in ten years time as a new social media platform will probably replace it, but I imagine that people will still be getting their news from the BBC.
bkman1990, Rijowhi and Brekkie gave kudos
LL
London Lite Founding member
I agree that there is no real sign of linear decline, although the way we consume television and radio is changing. We still watch linear broadcasts, but also in addition use VOD and IPTV.
BA
bilky asko
Isn't it incredible how many of the money-saving plans posited here are incredibly selfish? I dislike it, so let's get rid of it.

Newer posts