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Battle of Northern ITV V Southern ITV

(January 2016)

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SC
Si-Co
No. I think what happened was that the Lunchtime showing was the same as the evening one. In the early days, when it was shown in the morning and the afternoon, with no evening broadcast, the morning edition was a repeat of the afternoon before. After it was moved to 17:35, or 18:35 in Northern Ireland, it became the case that both transmissions were the same episode.

Just a thought as well about advertising. There used to be Mondays Newcomers, which showed new adverts that the ITV companies could record, and there was also, in the 1970s, a sequence where schools programmes were suspended between 10:30 and 11:00 each morning, to allow the ITV network to be used to distribute last minute adverts to all the contractors. Could that half hour gap have been used, if the capacity existed, to distribute entire programmes to contractors to show at a later date?

And when did the half hour break end, year wise, and why?


Yes, the 5.35 episode of Neighbours was always a repeat of the lunchtime showing.

The half hour break in schools programmes ended in Summer 1981 (although the break tended to be shorter during 1980-81). I assume they used another line to feed out trailers etc after 1981, although I think some longer five-minute junctions may have been used for such purposes, as regions sometimes provided their own junctions (even if there was no variation in schedule).
MA
Markymark
Northern Ireland occasionally had something to think about with Neighbours, which they time shifted to after the Six. As it was recorded from the dirty feed they had to crash into the titles to avoid Edd the Duck noises etc.

When time shifting network programmes in tape days, would they add a VT clock (via a physical splice?) or just rely on time code on playback to cue it up?


I would think almost certainly the latter ? Physical splicing was only a thing from the Quad era, and used very sparingly (playing the tape over splice points was like hitting the heads with a hammer, and would shorten their life)


You couldn't splice 1" because it used helical tracks, it was only 2" Quad (a much earlier format) that allowed for physical editing.


Yes indeed, the tracks on Quad were virtually vertical, so that allowed it

*

Helical formats look like this:-

*

You could have EdiTeced it - by laying clocks onto the tape first and putting them into record using insert (i.e. editing the recording onto the end of the clock) but there was no real need to do this as you were timecode syncing the two VTRs and running them in sync rather than cross rolling from one to another. You wouldn't be offering the VTR outputs to network, you'd be running in your own area offering a single, switched output to Network. They would never have seen the clocks if you did have them. If you needed a PasB of the final show as a continuous recording, you could book a fourth VTR to record the incoming feed (or record on site if an OB rather than a multilateral feed from an international event)


Yes, though I think Steve was talking about a simple single timeshifted recording, having some sort of cue added to the start ?
WH
Whataday Founding member
There must be stories of that going horrendously wrong?


This isn't really related but all this talk of VT reminds me of an incident that occured on S4C many moons ago, whereby, after closedown a duty manager spooled back over some adverts. For some reason the station was still on air and the ads were shown rewinding to any viewers that were still watching. He then paused on a deodorant advert which featured a glimpse of a woman's breast, and paused it at the most revealing moment for some time, before the station abruptly came off air.
Hatton Cross, nwtv2003 and Si-Co gave kudos
BL
bluecortina
Si-Co posted:

As a matter of interest, how exactly did the BBC nations time shift programmes in this way, before they had the digital means to do so?


By recording the programme from 'network' on VT, and replaying. Not a problem if the time-shift was after the network showing had finished, but rather trickier if it hadn't finished before the local start time. S4C of course were incredibly busy doing time-shifts from C4 for 30 years until DSO

They might have been sent tapes in some situations ?


Yep - in the days before servers (Profile's arrival in the mid-90s was a real game-changer), you either had to get a cloned tape in advance, arrange a line-feed in advance (and record it locally), or as you say, do the tape-delay shuffle. Which was horrible, and even more horrible the shorter the delay and the longer the programme. You needed three VTRs (any of which could be timecode slaved to each other), and someone running them who knew how long they took to rewind, and didn't push their luck in that regard... I'm not sure if the Nations did this that often, if at all, but network did when they needed to delay a live event (though it was usually a BBC Events AP who did the delay, not a pres person ISTR)


Don't forget Noggin that for ITV at least there was another option - the tape could simply be played out from the source company into the tx slot of the receiving company in real time. If I recall correctly under those circumstances the tape machine would be under the supervision of the source TX controller, so he or she made sure the local VT was rolled on time to 'hit' the on-air time at the receiving end. This was obviously pre-agreed between the source and receiving TX controllers during the day in the run up to the tx. Routine stuff though.
JA
james-2001
He then paused on a deodorant advert which featured a glimpse of a woman's breast, and paused it at the most revealing moment for some time, before the station abruptly came off air.


Using up his Kleenex then!
BL
bluecortina
[quote="noggin" pid="991746I would think almost certainly the latter ? Physical splicing was only a thing from the Quad era, and used very sparingly (playing the tape over splice points was like hitting the heads with a hammer, and would shorten their life)[/quote]

You couldn't splice 1" because it used helical tracks, it was only 2" Quad (a much earlier format) that allowed for physical editing.

[/quote]


I have a quad tape splicer - not the 'Smiths' one, the other one made by EMT that used the rotating control track head.

Edit. Perhaps I should have used it to splice together this post which I can see now I have rather mangled!
JA
james-2001
Physical splicing was only a thing from the Quad era, and used very sparingly (playing the tape over splice points was like hitting the heads with a hammer, and would shorten their life)


Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In must have killed the VTRs!
MA
Markymark
Physical splicing was only a thing from the Quad era, and used very sparingly (playing the tape over splice points was like hitting the heads with a hammer, and would shorten their life)


Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In must have killed the VTRs!


Quite possibly !! The late 60s and 70s sounded a really exciting time for broadcast engineering, I sometimes
I feel I was born about 15 years too late Sad

http://www.vtoldboys.com/heads02.htm
RS
Rob_Schneider
Interesting story about Neighbours. Over on ITV, Thames would play out the lunchtime Home and Away to network - which was, more or less, networked - but each region recorded this for their regionally varied evening showing. Therefore, you could have three regions all showing at 5:10 but be at different points in the programme.
JA
james-2001
Didn't the evening showing of Home & Away on Friday used to span the Thames/LWT split, or am I mis-remembering?
MA
Markymark
Didn't the evening showing of Home & Away on Friday used to span the Thames/LWT split, or am I mis-remembering?



Yes it did, discussed recently at great length on DS, it was played out to network by Thames, including the 17:10 Friday episode
JA
james-2001
Presumably became less complicated when Carlton took over, with them sharing facilities with LWT, so I believe no physical switching taking place.

Be interesting to see that DS discussion if you can link to it though.

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