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"Off air recordings" and A, B and C rolls

(December 2014)

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DK
DanielK
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but it is sort of related...what are the different versions of a recording of a show called? For example, a recording without the clock, without GFX, with all GFX burned on etc.


Not off topic at all really mate, the kind of thing I was trying and perhaps failing to get at :p

Good good haha! For example, I've seen clips of Daybreak with no clock, or the clock with no figures on it, and others with no straps or 'live' flashes, just hard cuts.
ME
mediaman2007
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but it is sort of related...what are the different versions of a recording of a show called? For example, a recording without the clock, without GFX, with all GFX burned on etc.


I can answer this up to a point though. There will be clean and dirty versions of programmes - clean is free of graphics and dirty is..well...
DK
DanielK
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but it is sort of related...what are the different versions of a recording of a show called? For example, a recording without the clock, without GFX, with all GFX burned on etc.


I can answer this up to a point though. There will be clean and dirty versions of programmes - clean is free of graphics and dirty is..well...

That's it! Must be various levels of dirty feeds as, again with Daybreak, I've seen the clock bug with no digits, clock with digits, straps, clock + straps but not split screens etc.
XQ
XQD
As I understand it, programmes will be delivered with re-versioning material if intended for TX internationally, but AFAIK UK transmissions for programmes such as Blind Date, Saturday Night Takeaway, X Factor, The Chase etc. would comprise solely the finished programme - no additional material at the end. There would be no 'textless' elements etc.

Chat shows will often record ISO (isolated) feeds of specific cameras to aid post-production, but for the most part the 'line cut' of the vision mixer would be used.

In the Blind Date example, that footage would've been taken from a DigiBeta of the main record. Interesting that all of that sort of material is still kept in archive - though I'm guessing due to Cilla's shock announcement, perhaps dispensation required that it was kept.
dbl and mediaman2007 gave kudos
:-(
A former member
This is a wonderful take off stuff.
Put The Telly On and mediaman2007 gave kudos
BL
bluecortina
Continuing to use the example of Blind Date and bearing in mind that we are talking about practices in the 80/90’s. Blind Date was not a complicated show, 6 cameras at the most. Even though the show was recorded, it was common practice to record the show pretty much in line with how the viewer at home would see it. This meant it would be a complete as possible before the studio audience. So, standard 60 sec clock, LWT ident, titles and mix through/wipe to the opening camera shot and off you go. Perhaps the odd re-take between parts or at the end of the show or ‘as you go along’ if more pertinent. This tape (the output of the studio vision mixer) would be the ‘Studio Recording’. All very smooth as all the production crew were extremely professional .

At the same time as recording the output of the studio mixer to one VTR machine, some of the cameras would be separately recorded onto additional VTR machines so that their pictures could be edited into the ‘Studio Recording’ as necessary for production reasons. These are referred to as ‘ISO or ISOCam’ recordings. Generally an ISO recording will have the normal studio sound recorded along with it.
The show would then move into video editing and then the audio would be dubbed. It’s standard practice when recording a big LE show, in a big LE studio, for the studio sound to be recorded onto a multitrack device for subsequent mixing or ‘sweetening’ before the sound is then re-united back with the edited video. This tape is called the 'Transmission Master’. Of course if a show is complete at the time of recording and requires no further work it is automatically a ‘Transmission Master’.

There is no such thing as a ‘dirty’ feed in a studio complex. The complete output of a studio mixer is the ‘studio output’. Vision mixers can also give an output which does not contain certain elements (usually graphics supers etc) and that feed is known as a ‘Clean feed’. Usually what is, and is not, contained on the ‘Clean feed’ can be programmed.

A show such as Good morning Britain will almost certainly record a ‘clean feed ‘ of the studio mixer so that certain elements can subsequently re-used without inappropriate graphics on it.

If you were a VTR engineer recording a studio’s output, you pressed the record button when the PA or director told you to start recording and you never ever pressed the stop button until told to do so. You never started or stopped a recording unless you were instructed to do so, if you did use your own initiative then almost certainly one day you would do the wrong thing and get the b********g of a lifetime, that’s why you got pre and after show material as a matter of routine rather than deliberately. Of course there were times when the studio crew wanted something else tacked onto the end of the main recording and you just recorded it on the end of the tape as requested – but that would be on the ‘Studio Recording’ tape and not the ‘Transmission master’. Very unusual for anything extraneous to be left on the end of a ‘Transmission master’ tape.

Between parts? Standard practice was 60 second clock to first programme pictures, end of part would be a visual hold of some sort (end of part XX for example) for 10 seconds, then fade to black for at least another 10 seconds. 30 second clock into the next part. At the end of the recording a visual hold for 30 seconds followed by a fade to black for another 30 secs at least.
Last edited by bluecortina on 21 December 2014 11:38pm
WH
Whataday Founding member
LCL92 posted:
As I understand it, programmes will be delivered with re-versioning material if intended for TX internationally, but AFAIK UK transmissions for programmes such as Blind Date, Saturday Night Takeaway, X Factor, The Chase etc. would comprise solely the finished programme - no additional material at the end. There would be no 'textless' elements etc.


With X Factor there must be two versions to allow for "This is a repeat: lines now closed" instead of the phone numbers.

This may sound stupid, and I'm just wondering out loud really, but I wonder if there is a legal reason they film the entire studio session from start to finish?
BL
bluecortina
LCL92 posted:
As I understand it, programmes will be delivered with re-versioning material if intended for TX internationally, but AFAIK UK transmissions for programmes such as Blind Date, Saturday Night Takeaway, X Factor, The Chase etc. would comprise solely the finished programme - no additional material at the end. There would be no 'textless' elements etc.


With X Factor there must be two versions to allow for "This is a repeat: lines now closed" instead of the phone numbers.

This may sound stupid, and I'm just wondering out loud really, but I wonder if there is a legal reason they film the entire studio session from start to finish?


If you didn't record the entire studio show you wouldn't have a source of material for any highlights/packages in succeeding shows. I'd bet a fair wadge of cash that they're recording a lot of ISO cams too. It's all going onto servers and in the overall scheme of things the cost is peanuts.

Can't see any legal reason why they would need to record the show, ITV however needs to keep a copy of the 'Programme as Transmitted' and the TX centre at Chiswick would be doing that as it's the most obvious place to do it.
ME
mediaman2007
Continuing to use the example of Blind Date and bearing in mind that we are talking about practices in the 80/90’s. Blind Date was not a complicated show, 6 cameras at the most. Even though the show was recorded, it was common practice to record the show pretty much in line with how the viewer at home would see it. This meant it would be a complete as possible before the studio audience. So, standard 60 sec clock, LWT ident, titles and mix through/wipe to the opening camera shot and off you go. Perhaps the odd re-take between parts or at the end of the show or ‘as you go along’ if more pertinent. This tape (the output of the studio vision mixer) would be the ‘Studio Recording’. All very smooth as all the production crew were extremely professional .

At the same time as recording the output of the studio mixer to one VTR machine, some of the cameras would be separately recorded onto additional VTR machines so that their pictures could be edited into the ‘Studio Recording’ as necessary for production reasons. These are referred to as ‘ISO or ISOCam’ recordings. Generally an ISO recording will have the normal studio sound recorded along with it.
The show would then move into video editing and then the audio would be dubbed. It’s standard practice when recording a big LE show, in a big LE studio, for the studio sound to be recorded onto a multitrack device for subsequent mixing or ‘sweetening’ before the sound is then re-united back with the edited video. This tape is called the 'Transmission Master’. Of course if a show is complete at the time of recording and requires no further work it is automatically a ‘Transmission Master’.

There is no such thing as a ‘dirty’ feed in a studio complex. The complete output of a studio mixer is the ‘studio output’. Vision mixers can also give an output which does not contain certain elements (usually graphics supers etc) and that feed is known as a ‘Clean feed’. Usually what is, and is not, contained on the ‘Clean feed’ can be programmed.

A show such as Good morning Britain will almost certainly record a ‘clean feed ‘ of the studio mixer so that certain elements can subsequently re-used without inappropriate graphics on it.

If you were a VTR engineer recording a studio’s output, you pressed the record button when the PA or director told you to start recording and you never ever pressed the stop button until told to do so. You never started or stopped a recording unless you were instructed to do so, if you did use your own initiative then almost certainly one day you would do the wrong thing and get the b********g of a lifetime, that’s why you got pre and after show material as a matter of routine rather than deliberately. Of course there were times when the studio crew wanted something else tacked onto the end of the main recording and you just recorded it on the end of the tape as requested – but that would be on the ‘Studio Recording’ tape and not the ‘Transmission master’. Very unusual for anything extraneous to be left on the end of a ‘Transmission master’ tape.

Between parts? Standard practice was 60 second clock to first programme pictures, end of part would be a visual hold of some sort (end of part XX for example) for 10 seconds, then fade to black for at least another 10 seconds. 30 second clock into the next part. At the end of the recording a visual hold for 30 seconds followed by a fade to black for another 30 secs at least.


Amazing, thank you!
XQ
XQD
LCL92 posted:
As I understand it, programmes will be delivered with re-versioning material if intended for TX internationally, but AFAIK UK transmissions for programmes such as Blind Date, Saturday Night Takeaway, X Factor, The Chase etc. would comprise solely the finished programme - no additional material at the end. There would be no 'textless' elements etc.


With X Factor there must be two versions to allow for "This is a repeat: lines now closed" instead of the phone numbers.

This may sound stupid, and I'm just wondering out loud really, but I wonder if there is a legal reason they film the entire studio session from start to finish?


No, they just add the 'this is a repeat' graphic over the top, I'm guessing. Indeed on ITV player, the main recording as TX goes up, numbers etc. all in tact. In fact, several programmes I've watched on there seem to be off-air recordings and often including the C/A over the credits.

As I understand it, there is no 'legal' reason to record the entire output from start to finish - it's done because it is necessary. The only contractual requirements when delivering to the network are that copies are made to them for archive. Even with the onset of the DPP and file delivery, I believe ITV still asks for HDCAMs of TX masters:

Deluxe will supply tape copies of transmission material to the ITV Archive in Leeds. The tapes will remain in the ITV Archive for the period in which ITV hold rights for the content (for ITV Studios content, in perpetuity). Deluxe will retain a copy of all content on file while ITV hold the rights for the content.
BL
bluecortina
LCL92 posted:
LCL92 posted:
As I understand it, programmes will be delivered with re-versioning material if intended for TX internationally, but AFAIK UK transmissions for programmes such as Blind Date, Saturday Night Takeaway, X Factor, The Chase etc. would comprise solely the finished programme - no additional material at the end. There would be no 'textless' elements etc.


With X Factor there must be two versions to allow for "This is a repeat: lines now closed" instead of the phone numbers.

This may sound stupid, and I'm just wondering out loud really, but I wonder if there is a legal reason they film the entire studio session from start to finish?


No, they just add the 'this is a repeat' graphic over the top, I'm guessing. Indeed on ITV player, the main recording as TX goes up, numbers etc. all in tact. In fact, several programmes I've watched on there seem to be off-air recordings and often including the C/A over the credits.

As I understand it, there is no 'legal' reason to record the entire output from start to finish - it's done because it is necessary. The only contractual requirements when delivering to the network are that copies are made to them for archive. Even with the onset of the DPP and file delivery, I believe ITV still asks for HDCAMs of TX masters:

Deluxe will supply tape copies of transmission material to the ITV Archive in Leeds. The tapes will remain in the ITV Archive for the period in which ITV hold rights for the content (for ITV Studios content, in perpetuity). Deluxe will retain a copy of all content on file while ITV hold the rights for the content.


Ofcom will require ITV to keep a copy of the complete 'Programme As Transmitted' in the event of a query by them or anyone else in a position to query the programme content through Ofcom. (i.e you or me for example complaining to Ofcom about something within the programme we might have found offensive for example). It's a hangover from the ITA/IBA days and a good one in my humble opinion. But I don't think ITV have to keep a copy in perpetuity, in 'my day' it was a calendar month, but things may have changed since then.

Edit. In 'my day' we just recorded the transmitted audio, not pictures!
Last edited by bluecortina on 22 December 2014 12:10am
NG
noggin Founding member
Have answered in the original thread.

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