NG
Before ISDN it would have been music circuits (or worse commentary grade circuits). These would have been copper or multiplexed microwave links I guess.
I don't think phone-quality lines will have been used in recent years for commentary, though they may have been used for voting.
noggin
Founding member
Telefís posted:
That is a joke right?!
That's really interesting stuff noggin. How was it done before ISDN came along - say the late 80s - or have broadcasters always had high capacity links since the elimination of the phone-in system whenever that was?
That's really interesting stuff noggin. How was it done before ISDN came along - say the late 80s - or have broadcasters always had high capacity links since the elimination of the phone-in system whenever that was?
Before ISDN it would have been music circuits (or worse commentary grade circuits). These would have been copper or multiplexed microwave links I guess.
I don't think phone-quality lines will have been used in recent years for commentary, though they may have been used for voting.
HC
IIRC the last time a none ISDN/In-Vision Sattellite system was used to deliver the results from a national dury was when the Bosnian dury voted in the 1995/6ish contest which was at the high of Bosnian Serbocroation war.
Obviously with missles flying around in the fresh air, satellites and crystal clear IDSN circuts were out so they had to use shortwave radio transmission to give the results.
There was a hearty round of applause from those in the contest arena when the presenter came on the line that evening. Not surprising, as security wise with the country on lockdown and in a state of war, just finding 12 people to vote was an effort and it was later revealed that the 12 listened to the other countries songs via radio from a secure underground bunker.
Obviously with missles flying around in the fresh air, satellites and crystal clear IDSN circuts were out so they had to use shortwave radio transmission to give the results.
There was a hearty round of applause from those in the contest arena when the presenter came on the line that evening. Not surprising, as security wise with the country on lockdown and in a state of war, just finding 12 people to vote was an effort and it was later revealed that the 12 listened to the other countries songs via radio from a secure underground bunker.
HC
If you think about it, mixing 39 versions of the voting for the 39 competing countries, and providing 39 independent vision paths out of the venue would be horrendously complex. Much easier to provide a couple of (extremely high quality - AIUI the main feed was 34Mbs) clean feeds with back ups and let the re-broadcasters cope with the graphics.
I've thought about it - I wouldn't want to do it!
I'm guessing though the most complex part of the evening is the results. 39 studios with 39 presenters, and 39 different feeds to arrange in 70 odd minutes. I'm guessing here that the EBU only use around 4 or 5 different satellite feeds for this, so for example countries 1, 6, 11 use sat frequency 1, and countries 2, 7, 12 use sat frequency 2 etc?
noggin posted:
If you think about it, mixing 39 versions of the voting for the 39 competing countries, and providing 39 independent vision paths out of the venue would be horrendously complex. Much easier to provide a couple of (extremely high quality - AIUI the main feed was 34Mbs) clean feeds with back ups and let the re-broadcasters cope with the graphics.
I've thought about it - I wouldn't want to do it!
I'm guessing though the most complex part of the evening is the results. 39 studios with 39 presenters, and 39 different feeds to arrange in 70 odd minutes. I'm guessing here that the EBU only use around 4 or 5 different satellite feeds for this, so for example countries 1, 6, 11 use sat frequency 1, and countries 2, 7, 12 use sat frequency 2 etc?
NG
If you think about it, mixing 39 versions of the voting for the 39 competing countries, and providing 39 independent vision paths out of the venue would be horrendously complex. Much easier to provide a couple of (extremely high quality - AIUI the main feed was 34Mbs) clean feeds with back ups and let the re-broadcasters cope with the graphics.
I've thought about it - I wouldn't want to do it!
I'm guessing though the most complex part of the evening is the results. 39 studios with 39 presenters, and 39 different feeds to arrange in 70 odd minutes. I'm guessing here that the EBU only use around 4 or 5 different satellite feeds for this, so for example countries 1, 6, 11 use sat frequency 1, and countries 2, 7, 12 use sat frequency 2 etc?
Yep - that is AIUI how it is done - I think they use a small number of uplink channels , and co-ordinate them clearly. Not sure if the reverse audio is handled differently.
noggin
Founding member
Hatton Cross posted:
noggin posted:
If you think about it, mixing 39 versions of the voting for the 39 competing countries, and providing 39 independent vision paths out of the venue would be horrendously complex. Much easier to provide a couple of (extremely high quality - AIUI the main feed was 34Mbs) clean feeds with back ups and let the re-broadcasters cope with the graphics.
I've thought about it - I wouldn't want to do it!
I'm guessing though the most complex part of the evening is the results. 39 studios with 39 presenters, and 39 different feeds to arrange in 70 odd minutes. I'm guessing here that the EBU only use around 4 or 5 different satellite feeds for this, so for example countries 1, 6, 11 use sat frequency 1, and countries 2, 7, 12 use sat frequency 2 etc?
Yep - that is AIUI how it is done - I think they use a small number of uplink channels , and co-ordinate them clearly. Not sure if the reverse audio is handled differently.
TE
Often wondered how many they have on standby on monitors in the gallery - the next 3 or 4 or more?
Also, who feeds them in to the gallery and makes sure every single is coming through? Is it done in a seperate room to the gallery?
Are rehersals of all the frequencies gone through before the show to make sure very broadcaster is coming through and available?
Also, who feeds them in to the gallery and makes sure every single is coming through? Is it done in a seperate room to the gallery?
Are rehersals of all the frequencies gone through before the show to make sure very broadcaster is coming through and available?
NG
I think the downlinks will be handled by the EBU - just feeding vision and audio to the OB unit handling the main show (unless there is a sub-mix scanner for the voting)
The voting is rehearsed during the dress rehearsal 24 hours earlier.
Given that I suspect standard EBU satellite link space is used, which many countries will be using every day for the EVN news exchanges, the requirement to check the uplinks in most countries may not be that great - though smaller countries may need to check.
This year the main show was 16:9 - but all voting sources had to be 4:3 - so the rehearsal would allow you to check that.
noggin
Founding member
Telefís posted:
Often wondered how many they have on standby on monitors in the gallery - the next 3 or 4 or more?
Also, who feeds them in to the gallery and makes sure every single is coming through? Is it done in a seperate room to the gallery?
Are rehersals of all the frequencies gone through before the show to make sure very broadcaster is coming through and available?
Also, who feeds them in to the gallery and makes sure every single is coming through? Is it done in a seperate room to the gallery?
Are rehersals of all the frequencies gone through before the show to make sure very broadcaster is coming through and available?
I think the downlinks will be handled by the EBU - just feeding vision and audio to the OB unit handling the main show (unless there is a sub-mix scanner for the voting)
The voting is rehearsed during the dress rehearsal 24 hours earlier.
Given that I suspect standard EBU satellite link space is used, which many countries will be using every day for the EVN news exchanges, the requirement to check the uplinks in most countries may not be that great - though smaller countries may need to check.
This year the main show was 16:9 - but all voting sources had to be 4:3 - so the rehearsal would allow you to check that.
NG
Given that very few countries (Sweden, UK, Ireland, Germany and a few others) are actually running in full 16:9 domestically, the only secure way of doing the voting is in 4:3.
The 12:9 voting feeds WERE cut full-frame (i.e. not shrunk) - however rather than have 2:9 black bars left and right, instead the 12:9 voting feed was shifted to the left of frame, and the 4:9 space remaining on the right filled with a flag, with a bit of overlap for artistic effect.
Quite an elegant solution - nicer than zooming/cropping.
noggin
Founding member
Telefís posted:
Ah - I wondered about the aspect ratio of the voters. They all seemed to be 4:3 to the side of the shot there.
Perhaps this is why they didn't fill the screen for a few seconds with the voting country like they usually do, which was a shame.
Perhaps this is why they didn't fill the screen for a few seconds with the voting country like they usually do, which was a shame.
Given that very few countries (Sweden, UK, Ireland, Germany and a few others) are actually running in full 16:9 domestically, the only secure way of doing the voting is in 4:3.
The 12:9 voting feeds WERE cut full-frame (i.e. not shrunk) - however rather than have 2:9 black bars left and right, instead the 12:9 voting feed was shifted to the left of frame, and the 4:9 space remaining on the right filled with a flag, with a bit of overlap for artistic effect.
Quite an elegant solution - nicer than zooming/cropping.