NS
NickyS
Founding member
[quote="Hatton Cross"]
2 years ago the Eurovision website put a live stream from inside his OB truck. It really was surprising how pre-set everything was in his direction. All the shots were pre-set, and he mearly spent the entire song performance reading the camera change cuts from a script. During some songs I noticed he never once looked up at the monitor bank to see what was going out.
.
The whole of Eurovision is pre-planned. I had a copy of the script at work and was able to read the presenters words at the same time as them, including the supposed ad libs in the Green Room etc. Suppose they need to keep it as on time as possible (think it was about 6-8 mins over this year) and also as English wasn't the presenters first language it helps them. Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
Telefís posted:
2 years ago the Eurovision website put a live stream from inside his OB truck. It really was surprising how pre-set everything was in his direction. All the shots were pre-set, and he mearly spent the entire song performance reading the camera change cuts from a script. During some songs I noticed he never once looked up at the monitor bank to see what was going out.
.
The whole of Eurovision is pre-planned. I had a copy of the script at work and was able to read the presenters words at the same time as them, including the supposed ad libs in the Green Room etc. Suppose they need to keep it as on time as possible (think it was about 6-8 mins over this year) and also as English wasn't the presenters first language it helps them. Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
NG
noggin
Founding member
[quote="NickyS"]
2 years ago the Eurovision website put a live stream from inside his OB truck. It really was surprising how pre-set everything was in his direction. All the shots were pre-set, and he mearly spent the entire song performance reading the camera change cuts from a script. During some songs I noticed he never once looked up at the monitor bank to see what was going out.
.
The whole of Eurovision is pre-planned. I had a copy of the script at work and was able to read the presenters words at the same time as them, including the supposed ad libs in the Green Room etc. Suppose they need to keep it as on time as possible (think it was about 6-8 mins over this year) and also as English wasn't the presenters first language it helps them. Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
Yes - though the presentation itself is entirely from memory - as there are no autocue devices (either on camera or on large screens), in the hall.
It is entirely usual to pre-script such a show though - both in camera shot and dialogue terms. The green room sequences and award presentation bits will have been the only camera ad-libbed stuff I suspect. Music numbers are almost always tightly scripted, with a PA bar counting to keep the shots in sync with the song. If a director has done well with his scripting and nothing changes, then you may not hear him talk much at all during the music sequences.
Hatton Cross posted:
Telefís posted:
2 years ago the Eurovision website put a live stream from inside his OB truck. It really was surprising how pre-set everything was in his direction. All the shots were pre-set, and he mearly spent the entire song performance reading the camera change cuts from a script. During some songs I noticed he never once looked up at the monitor bank to see what was going out.
.
The whole of Eurovision is pre-planned. I had a copy of the script at work and was able to read the presenters words at the same time as them, including the supposed ad libs in the Green Room etc. Suppose they need to keep it as on time as possible (think it was about 6-8 mins over this year) and also as English wasn't the presenters first language it helps them. Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
Yes - though the presentation itself is entirely from memory - as there are no autocue devices (either on camera or on large screens), in the hall.
It is entirely usual to pre-script such a show though - both in camera shot and dialogue terms. The green room sequences and award presentation bits will have been the only camera ad-libbed stuff I suspect. Music numbers are almost always tightly scripted, with a PA bar counting to keep the shots in sync with the song. If a director has done well with his scripting and nothing changes, then you may not hear him talk much at all during the music sequences.
NG
I thought that Malta was great in coverage terms, though I also thought Slovenia in the Semis looked really impressive. A really nice Steadicam shot, and then incorporating the warbling woman at the end was very nicely done.
I also liked the odd witty shot that was dropped in - like the dancer winking to camera during Sweden's Las Vegas.
I think you're right about the use of the two jib/cranes at the back. The extending one was definitely used off the back of the postcards for an introduction shot.
As for movement - I think that is one of the key things about the Swedish style. If you can script a song so that every shot is moving and "works" then it can look amazing. Geoff Posner managed that for a lot of the Birmingham stuff - and it just flowed beautifully. I think Jerusalem suffered in comparison the following year.
This year I noticed that the jibs at the front both had clever heads allowing for lots of dutch tilt - that seemed to be the "signature" this year.
noggin
Founding member
Telefís posted:
Thanks for that link squawkbox - really interesting stuff.
Any pics of the gallery anywhere?
Agreed noggin that there's no doubt it's a striking style - and looks exceptionally well for the most part, the seamless flow of movement can be just stunning.
Did you see Malta's performance, where she came to the 'big bit' and screamed her head off
- the pulling out and up of the jib-arm at a skewed angle was just spectacular! The resulting applause was definitely more for the shot that for her!
That jib-arm pictured at the back of the auditorium is incredible! I've never in my life seem one as long as that! - if you'll excuse the terminology
Presumably it is the one used for the floating shot before and after ad breaks etc - the left hand side one must have been used for the introductory auditorium shot for each performance.
Any pics of the gallery anywhere?
Agreed noggin that there's no doubt it's a striking style - and looks exceptionally well for the most part, the seamless flow of movement can be just stunning.
Did you see Malta's performance, where she came to the 'big bit' and screamed her head off
- the pulling out and up of the jib-arm at a skewed angle was just spectacular! The resulting applause was definitely more for the shot that for her!
That jib-arm pictured at the back of the auditorium is incredible! I've never in my life seem one as long as that! - if you'll excuse the terminology
Presumably it is the one used for the floating shot before and after ad breaks etc - the left hand side one must have been used for the introductory auditorium shot for each performance.
I thought that Malta was great in coverage terms, though I also thought Slovenia in the Semis looked really impressive. A really nice Steadicam shot, and then incorporating the warbling woman at the end was very nicely done.
I also liked the odd witty shot that was dropped in - like the dancer winking to camera during Sweden's Las Vegas.
I think you're right about the use of the two jib/cranes at the back. The extending one was definitely used off the back of the postcards for an introduction shot.
As for movement - I think that is one of the key things about the Swedish style. If you can script a song so that every shot is moving and "works" then it can look amazing. Geoff Posner managed that for a lot of the Birmingham stuff - and it just flowed beautifully. I think Jerusalem suffered in comparison the following year.
This year I noticed that the jibs at the front both had clever heads allowing for lots of dutch tilt - that seemed to be the "signature" this year.
HC
Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
And 'Ant' seemed to have picked up his grasp of speaking English by watching countless American movies - although his pronuciation in French was pretty much spot on.
I made the original remark about how Sven 'scripted' his shots 2 years ago. My further point (which I missed out of the original post, due to being called away to do some proper work
) was that watching the webfeed on the laptop and watching the output on television he was so busy reading the cuts of the script that when the musical score lent itself to a tight picture cut on the beat of the tune, he missed it.
Had he wanted to look up to the monitor bank, he could have timed those cuts to perfection....
..Or maybe I'm being far too picky on Sven.
By the way - what are the back-ups for Eurovision live show.?
I know that a recording of the final dress rehearsal is being played out from the venue onto a different satellite. Back at TVC is a recording of the same dress rehearsal also being played out, should the main live feed and the back-up feed from the venue fail?
NickyS posted:
Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
And 'Ant' seemed to have picked up his grasp of speaking English by watching countless American movies - although his pronuciation in French was pretty much spot on.
I made the original remark about how Sven 'scripted' his shots 2 years ago. My further point (which I missed out of the original post, due to being called away to do some proper work
) was that watching the webfeed on the laptop and watching the output on television he was so busy reading the cuts of the script that when the musical score lent itself to a tight picture cut on the beat of the tune, he missed it.
Had he wanted to look up to the monitor bank, he could have timed those cuts to perfection....
..Or maybe I'm being far too picky on Sven.
By the way - what are the back-ups for Eurovision live show.?
I know that a recording of the final dress rehearsal is being played out from the venue onto a different satellite. Back at TVC is a recording of the same dress rehearsal also being played out, should the main live feed and the back-up feed from the venue fail?
TE
This year I noticed that the jibs at the front both had clever heads allowing for lots of dutch tilt - that seemed to be the "signature" this year.
Yes - very Stars In Their Eyes too
It's a great feature, my favourite jib-arm move - if one can can have such
Interestingly RTÉ were as far as I can make out the first ever to use a jib-arm in Eurovision for their 1988 production - hardly surprisingly it was used rather tentatively
noggin posted:
This year I noticed that the jibs at the front both had clever heads allowing for lots of dutch tilt - that seemed to be the "signature" this year.
Yes - very Stars In Their Eyes too
It's a great feature, my favourite jib-arm move - if one can can have such
Interestingly RTÉ were as far as I can make out the first ever to use a jib-arm in Eurovision for their 1988 production - hardly surprisingly it was used rather tentatively
PH
Yes, they were also the first ever to use a computerised scoreboard that year however looking back at it now, it seems extremely crude...like something PowerPoint would be proud of...horrible!
I think RTÉ's Eurovision productions of the 90's were very good - especially 1995 even though it was a bit gloomy. They made excellent use of the roof-suspended camera that year - especially at the start during the part where the stage magically assembled itself behind Mary Kennedy.
In 1994, RTÉ were the first to use the modern microphones that we see at Eurovision today. In the same year, they used customised animations for the first time on the screens of the skyscrapers for each performance. And as far as I know, in 1995, it was the first time that the on-stage speakers and other equipment were concealed in the stage itself in front of the main performer. A lot of firsts then for RTÉ!
I think RTÉ's Eurovision productions of the 90's were very good - especially 1995 even though it was a bit gloomy. They made excellent use of the roof-suspended camera that year - especially at the start during the part where the stage magically assembled itself behind Mary Kennedy.
In 1994, RTÉ were the first to use the modern microphones that we see at Eurovision today. In the same year, they used customised animations for the first time on the screens of the skyscrapers for each performance. And as far as I know, in 1995, it was the first time that the on-stage speakers and other equipment were concealed in the stage itself in front of the main performer. A lot of firsts then for RTÉ!
MU
Im sure Eurovision will be coming home to Ireland soon!!!!
The Irish song failing to make the Final on Saturday night sparked of a national debate.
Phen posted:
Yes, they were also the first ever to use a computerised scoreboard that year however looking back at it now, it seems extremely crude...like something PowerPoint would be proud of...horrible!
I think RTÉ's Eurovision productions of the 90's were very good - especially 1995 even though it was a bit gloomy. They made excellent use of the roof-suspended camera that year - especially at the start during the part where the stage magically assembled itself behind Mary Kennedy. In 1994, RTÉ were the first to use the modern microphones that we see at Eurovision today. In the same year, they used customised animations for the first time on the screens of the skyscrapers for each performance. And as far as I know, in 1995, it was the first time that the on-stage speakers and other equipment were concealed in the stage itself in front of the main performer. A lot of firsts then for RTÉ!
I think RTÉ's Eurovision productions of the 90's were very good - especially 1995 even though it was a bit gloomy. They made excellent use of the roof-suspended camera that year - especially at the start during the part where the stage magically assembled itself behind Mary Kennedy.
In 1994, RTÉ were the first to use the modern microphones that we see at Eurovision today. In the same year, they used customised animations for the first time on the screens of the skyscrapers for each performance. And as far as I know, in 1995, it was the first time that the on-stage speakers and other equipment were concealed in the stage itself in front of the main performer. A lot of firsts then for RTÉ!
Im sure Eurovision will be coming home to Ireland soon!!!!
The Irish song failing to make the Final on Saturday night sparked of a national debate.
NG
Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
And 'Ant' seemed to have picked up his grasp of speaking English by watching countless American movies - although his pronuciation in French was pretty much spot on.
I made the original remark about how Sven 'scripted' his shots 2 years ago. My further point (which I missed out of the original post, due to being called away to do some proper work ) was that watching the webfeed on the laptop and watching the output on television he was so busy reading the cuts of the script that when the musical score lent itself to a tight picture cut on the beat of the tune, he missed it.
Had he wanted to look up to the monitor bank, he could have timed those cuts to perfection....
Hmm - I don't agree. During scripted music production you are entirely reliant on the quality of your PA and your vision mixer. Some of the BEST scripted music happens when the director stays silent. Of course if the PA or Vision Mixer are having to concentrate on other things - like listening to the changes - then that could explain it.
Having watched quite a lot of music production - the role of the vision mixer and PA really can't be overestimated - they are KEY.
If Sven had tried calling those shots mid script then it is more likely to de-stabilise the whole thing - and called shots are usually late...
..Or maybe I'm being far too picky on Sven.
By the way - what are the back-ups for Eurovision live show.?
I know that a recording of the final dress rehearsal is being played out from the venue onto a different satellite. Back at TVC is a recording of the same dress rehearsal also being played out, should the main live feed and the back-up feed from the venue fail?
AIUI the previous day's dress rehearsal (the penultimate one 24 hours earlier, rather than the one on the morning of the live show) is recorded at TV Centre - though it isn't a complete show as the voting would be pointless.
I think it is this dress rehearsal that is also used as the source of the reprise clips (rather than turning them round quickly from the final performance)
noggin
Founding member
Hatton Cross posted:
NickyS posted:
Although had to agree with Wogan about Screetch ..
And 'Ant' seemed to have picked up his grasp of speaking English by watching countless American movies - although his pronuciation in French was pretty much spot on.
I made the original remark about how Sven 'scripted' his shots 2 years ago. My further point (which I missed out of the original post, due to being called away to do some proper work
) was that watching the webfeed on the laptop and watching the output on television he was so busy reading the cuts of the script that when the musical score lent itself to a tight picture cut on the beat of the tune, he missed it.
Had he wanted to look up to the monitor bank, he could have timed those cuts to perfection....
Hmm - I don't agree. During scripted music production you are entirely reliant on the quality of your PA and your vision mixer. Some of the BEST scripted music happens when the director stays silent. Of course if the PA or Vision Mixer are having to concentrate on other things - like listening to the changes - then that could explain it.
Having watched quite a lot of music production - the role of the vision mixer and PA really can't be overestimated - they are KEY.
If Sven had tried calling those shots mid script then it is more likely to de-stabilise the whole thing - and called shots are usually late...
Quote:
..Or maybe I'm being far too picky on Sven.
By the way - what are the back-ups for Eurovision live show.?
I know that a recording of the final dress rehearsal is being played out from the venue onto a different satellite. Back at TVC is a recording of the same dress rehearsal also being played out, should the main live feed and the back-up feed from the venue fail?
AIUI the previous day's dress rehearsal (the penultimate one 24 hours earlier, rather than the one on the morning of the live show) is recorded at TV Centre - though it isn't a complete show as the voting would be pointless.
I think it is this dress rehearsal that is also used as the source of the reprise clips (rather than turning them round quickly from the final performance)
TE
Interesting. You never do think of what would happen if something went wrong in even one performance - the whole contest may have to be cancelled out of fairness if the cock-up/problem was particularly severe.
Really highlights the importance of back-up.
Agreed Phen about 1995 being the finest set - arguably the finest ever for Eurovision. Certainly for wide shots anyway. Its only failing as you say was the rather drab featureless background for performances.
It's very difficult to balance the overall form of the set which is often simple and bold, with the level of detail required for backgrounds during performances.
Yes the opening was absolutely spectacular, especially the very first few seconds where the Point was in darkness and all you could see was the heaving outline of the vast stage
You can see the opening sequence here in stages on the designer's website - it's at the very bottom. Alas the pictures don't do justice to what was a magnificent television scene.
http://indigo.ie/~alanf/evs'95.html
The fact that RTÉ used a single presenter that year made it all the more potent - alone in the middle of a vast stage. (I remember Mary being interviewed on Kenny Live after being selected - she seemed so official and newsreaderish, what a contrast with her persona today!)
Just like Fionnula Sweeney hosting in 1993, if we ever win it again I think RTÉ should make a statement by using just a single presenter - especially instead of the ridiculous gimmicky token move that was Carrie Crowley & Ronan Keating in 1997
What do you mean Phen about 'modern new microphones'? The ridiculous stupid stupid stupid headsets?!
They are the bane of contemporary television and whoever invented them ought to be burned at the stake!
Mary didn't wear one of those though did she? It was lapel mics all round wasn't it?! I also recall a rather clunky sound decision in the form of a slender double standed mic in use for the voting in front of her with little heads on it similar to fancy conference mics...
Also remember she was wearing cycling shorts underneath her outfits to hold all of her mic, back-up mic and ear-piece packs - eh apparently...
Really highlights the importance of back-up.
Agreed Phen about 1995 being the finest set - arguably the finest ever for Eurovision. Certainly for wide shots anyway. Its only failing as you say was the rather drab featureless background for performances.
It's very difficult to balance the overall form of the set which is often simple and bold, with the level of detail required for backgrounds during performances.
Yes the opening was absolutely spectacular, especially the very first few seconds where the Point was in darkness and all you could see was the heaving outline of the vast stage
You can see the opening sequence here in stages on the designer's website - it's at the very bottom. Alas the pictures don't do justice to what was a magnificent television scene.
http://indigo.ie/~alanf/evs'95.html
The fact that RTÉ used a single presenter that year made it all the more potent - alone in the middle of a vast stage. (I remember Mary being interviewed on Kenny Live after being selected - she seemed so official and newsreaderish, what a contrast with her persona today!)
Just like Fionnula Sweeney hosting in 1993, if we ever win it again I think RTÉ should make a statement by using just a single presenter - especially instead of the ridiculous gimmicky token move that was Carrie Crowley & Ronan Keating in 1997
What do you mean Phen about 'modern new microphones'? The ridiculous stupid stupid stupid headsets?!
They are the bane of contemporary television and whoever invented them ought to be burned at the stake!
Mary didn't wear one of those though did she? It was lapel mics all round wasn't it?! I also recall a rather clunky sound decision in the form of a slender double standed mic in use for the voting in front of her with little heads on it similar to fancy conference mics...
Also remember she was wearing cycling shorts underneath her outfits to hold all of her mic, back-up mic and ear-piece packs - eh apparently...
HC
Thanks for that. Where are televoting number graphics scourced from?
Is that done on site, or from the national broadcaster.
I ask this because the '02' endcode number to vote for the UK was displayed a couple of times on Saturday night and Terry didn't seem aware it was being shown on screen to remind people you can't vote for your own country.
noggin posted:
AIUI the previous day's dress rehearsal (the penultimate one 24 hours earlier, rather than the one on the morning of the live show) is recorded at TV Centre - though it isn't a complete show as the voting would be pointless.
I think it is this dress rehearsal that is also used as the source of the reprise clips (rather than turning them round quickly from the final performance)
I think it is this dress rehearsal that is also used as the source of the reprise clips (rather than turning them round quickly from the final performance)
Thanks for that. Where are televoting number graphics scourced from?
Is that done on site, or from the national broadcaster.
I ask this because the '02' endcode number to vote for the UK was displayed a couple of times on Saturday night and Terry didn't seem aware it was being shown on screen to remind people you can't vote for your own country.
NG
Thanks for that. Where are televoting number graphics scourced from?
Is that done on site, or from the national broadcaster.
I ask this because the '02' endcode number to vote for the UK was displayed a couple of times on Saturday night and Terry didn't seem aware it was being shown on screen to remind people you can't vote for your own country.
The phone/SMS numbers and other regional graphics are added in London, where Terry's commentary is also mixed in. The host broadcaster provides a clean-feed of the contest with a hole for broadcasters to add their own voting details. The audio is also clean of any commentary, though a guide commentary is also provided on a second audio, to allow those broadcasters who are commentating "off tube" (like most of Eurosport's commentart) from their broadcast centre (rather than sending to the location)
The commentary facilities are basically an ISDN line which allows you to have a single audio feed back to your country, where the constest feed, local graphics and commentary can all be mixed together. The BBC traditionally use a gallery for this - possibly the same one that also does the CSO for the in-vision voting feed which goes back to the contest site.
If you think about it, mixing 39 versions of the voting for the 39 competing countries, and providing 39 independent vision paths out of the venue would be horrendously complex. Much easier to provide a couple of (extremely high quality - AIUI the main feed was 34Mbs) clean feeds with back ups and let the re-broadcasters cope with the graphics.
noggin
Founding member
Hatton Cross posted:
noggin posted:
AIUI the previous day's dress rehearsal (the penultimate one 24 hours earlier, rather than the one on the morning of the live show) is recorded at TV Centre - though it isn't a complete show as the voting would be pointless.
I think it is this dress rehearsal that is also used as the source of the reprise clips (rather than turning them round quickly from the final performance)
I think it is this dress rehearsal that is also used as the source of the reprise clips (rather than turning them round quickly from the final performance)
Thanks for that. Where are televoting number graphics scourced from?
Is that done on site, or from the national broadcaster.
I ask this because the '02' endcode number to vote for the UK was displayed a couple of times on Saturday night and Terry didn't seem aware it was being shown on screen to remind people you can't vote for your own country.
The phone/SMS numbers and other regional graphics are added in London, where Terry's commentary is also mixed in. The host broadcaster provides a clean-feed of the contest with a hole for broadcasters to add their own voting details. The audio is also clean of any commentary, though a guide commentary is also provided on a second audio, to allow those broadcasters who are commentating "off tube" (like most of Eurosport's commentart) from their broadcast centre (rather than sending to the location)
The commentary facilities are basically an ISDN line which allows you to have a single audio feed back to your country, where the constest feed, local graphics and commentary can all be mixed together. The BBC traditionally use a gallery for this - possibly the same one that also does the CSO for the in-vision voting feed which goes back to the contest site.
If you think about it, mixing 39 versions of the voting for the 39 competing countries, and providing 39 independent vision paths out of the venue would be horrendously complex. Much easier to provide a couple of (extremely high quality - AIUI the main feed was 34Mbs) clean feeds with back ups and let the re-broadcasters cope with the graphics.