PE
Pete
Founding member
Presumably, it'd be best if on SD boxes it only had C4 SD in 104 whilst on HD boxes it had C4HD.
In that essence, it'd be more like C4 having 12 regions where both your postcode and box model are taken into account to serve you with either C4 SD Scotland, or C4 HD Scotland.
It'd also free up an EPG slot of course.
In that essence, it'd be more like C4 having 12 regions where both your postcode and box model are taken into account to serve you with either C4 SD Scotland, or C4 HD Scotland.
It'd also free up an EPG slot of course.
SW
Could it not be that if it was replaced on HD platforms, then it could in effect become a 'region' in its own right? Sky+HD has over 4m subscribers, not sure about FreeviewHD etc but I can't see it amounting to more than some of the regions if there are 6 of them, and it certainly won't be that every television household will have HD capability any time soon. The HD channel would also attract a certain type of viewer, and one that may be more inclined to spend their money so Channel 4 might not actually make a loss from it.
I would imagine that by replacing the C4 regions with C4HD, it would dramatically reduce the advertising revenues available from those regions, which would then have an affect on what C4 could afford to broadcast - they wouldn't be broadcasting six versions now if it wasn't making them more money than they could get from one..
Until such time as all the variations of C4 are run in HD and there is the capacity available at a suitable cost, I don't see them being swapped.
Until such time as all the variations of C4 are run in HD and there is the capacity available at a suitable cost, I don't see them being swapped.
Could it not be that if it was replaced on HD platforms, then it could in effect become a 'region' in its own right? Sky+HD has over 4m subscribers, not sure about FreeviewHD etc but I can't see it amounting to more than some of the regions if there are 6 of them, and it certainly won't be that every television household will have HD capability any time soon. The HD channel would also attract a certain type of viewer, and one that may be more inclined to spend their money so Channel 4 might not actually make a loss from it.
DO
But the point in this case is that the channel swap would only be for people who use that feature on Sky+HD. These are exactly the sort of people who will make an effort to find and watch C4HD rather than the SD version so really swapping the two around isn't going to make much of a difference commercially, it'd just make life a bit easier for those who want to watch the HD channel without having to remember the obscure EPG number.
There is going to be a point where HD (or at least access to HD) will be the norm for most people and it will be worthwhile for C4 to broadcast HD regions. If channel swapping is going to encourage that to happen faster (even for a relatively small number of viewers at present) they might as well do it.
C4's sales department will be wanting people to watch the localised versions. While many viewers may prefer the quality of the HD channel, you can be sure that the numbers don't match up with the figures they're getting on the SD channels, simply because if they did, they would have launched regional HD versions already.
Someone living in Newcastle and watching the SD version of C4 North is much more valuable to advertisers than them watching C4HD and getting London adverts.
The regions are known as LEMNUS (London, East (& South), Midlands, North, Ulster & Scotland). I'd be surprised if any of those regions other than Ulster has lower viewing figures than the HD channel.
The solution is to make more HD streams, but that won't happen until the figures (viewing and financial) match up. Only then will a channel swap would be acceptable to all parties.
I would imagine that by replacing the C4 regions with C4HD, it would dramatically reduce the advertising revenues available from those regions, which would then have an affect on what C4 could afford to broadcast - they wouldn't be broadcasting six versions now if it wasn't making them more money than they could get from one..
But the point in this case is that the channel swap would only be for people who use that feature on Sky+HD. These are exactly the sort of people who will make an effort to find and watch C4HD rather than the SD version so really swapping the two around isn't going to make much of a difference commercially, it'd just make life a bit easier for those who want to watch the HD channel without having to remember the obscure EPG number.
There is going to be a point where HD (or at least access to HD) will be the norm for most people and it will be worthwhile for C4 to broadcast HD regions. If channel swapping is going to encourage that to happen faster (even for a relatively small number of viewers at present) they might as well do it.
C4's sales department will be wanting people to watch the localised versions. While many viewers may prefer the quality of the HD channel, you can be sure that the numbers don't match up with the figures they're getting on the SD channels, simply because if they did, they would have launched regional HD versions already.
Someone living in Newcastle and watching the SD version of C4 North is much more valuable to advertisers than them watching C4HD and getting London adverts.
Could it not be that if it was replaced on HD platforms, then it could in effect become a 'region' in its own right? Sky+HD has over 4m subscribers, not sure about FreeviewHD etc but I can't see it amounting to more than some of the regions if there are 6 of them, and it certainly won't be that every television household will have HD capability any time soon. The HD channel would also attract a certain type of viewer, and one that may be more inclined to spend their money so Channel 4 might not actually make a loss from it.
The regions are known as LEMNUS (London, East (& South), Midlands, North, Ulster & Scotland). I'd be surprised if any of those regions other than Ulster has lower viewing figures than the HD channel.
The solution is to make more HD streams, but that won't happen until the figures (viewing and financial) match up. Only then will a channel swap would be acceptable to all parties.
GO
But the point in this case is that the channel swap would only be for people who use that feature on Sky+HD. These are exactly the sort of people who will make an effort to find and watch C4HD rather than the SD version so really swapping the two around isn't going to make much of a difference commercially, it'd just make life a bit easier for those who want to watch the HD channel without having to remember the obscure EPG number.
There is going to be a point where HD (or at least access to HD) will be the norm for most people and it will be worthwhile for C4 to broadcast HD regions. If channel swapping is going to encourage that to happen faster (even for a relatively small number of viewers at present) they might as well do it.
C4's sales department will be wanting people to watch the localised versions. While many viewers may prefer the quality of the HD channel, you can be sure that the numbers don't match up with the figures they're getting on the SD channels, simply because if they did, they would have launched regional HD versions already.
Someone living in Newcastle and watching the SD version of C4 North is much more valuable to advertisers than them watching C4HD and getting London adverts.
Yes I understand all this but what I am saying is that someone who specifically subscribes to Sky HD service is highly likely to make the effort to watch C4 shows in HD rather than SD, regardless of where they are in the country. Therefore a channel swap for people who have the HD package makes sense as the regional advertisers won't really be losing any audience as that audience wasn't exactly there in first place because they've been watching C4 HD for the last few years.
I would imagine that by replacing the C4 regions with C4HD, it would dramatically reduce the advertising revenues available from those regions, which would then have an affect on what C4 could afford to broadcast - they wouldn't be broadcasting six versions now if it wasn't making them more money than they could get from one..
But the point in this case is that the channel swap would only be for people who use that feature on Sky+HD. These are exactly the sort of people who will make an effort to find and watch C4HD rather than the SD version so really swapping the two around isn't going to make much of a difference commercially, it'd just make life a bit easier for those who want to watch the HD channel without having to remember the obscure EPG number.
There is going to be a point where HD (or at least access to HD) will be the norm for most people and it will be worthwhile for C4 to broadcast HD regions. If channel swapping is going to encourage that to happen faster (even for a relatively small number of viewers at present) they might as well do it.
C4's sales department will be wanting people to watch the localised versions. While many viewers may prefer the quality of the HD channel, you can be sure that the numbers don't match up with the figures they're getting on the SD channels, simply because if they did, they would have launched regional HD versions already.
Someone living in Newcastle and watching the SD version of C4 North is much more valuable to advertisers than them watching C4HD and getting London adverts.
Yes I understand all this but what I am saying is that someone who specifically subscribes to Sky HD service is highly likely to make the effort to watch C4 shows in HD rather than SD, regardless of where they are in the country. Therefore a channel swap for people who have the HD package makes sense as the regional advertisers won't really be losing any audience as that audience wasn't exactly there in first place because they've been watching C4 HD for the last few years.
DA
Maybe it will appear here before it appears on TV.
http://watchlive.channel4.com/
Every new Sky subscriber gets an HD box nowadays, don't they? Some of them won't even have an HD TV so it would still be more beneficial for advertisers to know that people watching their adverts are in a certain region rather than knowing that they might be watching in HD but then again may not be. Same applies to Freeview boxes.
I'm not sure it would free up an EPG slot, at least not on Sky. I think even channels not on the EPG take up a position, so all the Channel 4 regions take up a position each even though no one receives all of them.
Did we ever work out how Wales fits in to this nowadays?
Also notice a 4seven HD logo too, so wonder if that'll arrive sooner rather than later.
Maybe it will appear here before it appears on TV.
http://watchlive.channel4.com/
Yes I understand all this but what I am saying is that someone who specifically subscribes to Sky HD service is highly likely to make the effort to watch C4 shows in HD rather than SD, regardless of where they are in the country.
Every new Sky subscriber gets an HD box nowadays, don't they? Some of them won't even have an HD TV so it would still be more beneficial for advertisers to know that people watching their adverts are in a certain region rather than knowing that they might be watching in HD but then again may not be. Same applies to Freeview boxes.
In that essence, it'd be more like C4 having 12 regions where both your postcode and box model are taken into account to serve you with either C4 SD Scotland, or C4 HD Scotland.
It'd also free up an EPG slot of course.
It'd also free up an EPG slot of course.
I'm not sure it would free up an EPG slot, at least not on Sky. I think even channels not on the EPG take up a position, so all the Channel 4 regions take up a position each even though no one receives all of them.
The regions are known as LEMNUS (London, East (& South), Midlands, North, Ulster & Scotland). I'd be surprised if any of those regions other than Ulster has lower viewing figures than the HD channel.
Did we ever work out how Wales fits in to this nowadays?
GO
Maybe it will appear here before it appears on TV.
http://watchlive.channel4.com/
Every new Sky subscriber gets an HD box nowadays, don't they? Some of them won't even have an HD TV so it would still be more beneficial for advertisers to know that people watching their adverts are in a certain region rather than knowing that they might be watching in HD but then again may not be. Same applies to Freeview boxes.
New subscribers do get an HD box but people who subscribe to the HD service see all the standard def channels switched around with the HD channels so that they are easier to find (aside from the five PSBs).
Also notice a 4seven HD logo too, so wonder if that'll arrive sooner rather than later.
Maybe it will appear here before it appears on TV.
http://watchlive.channel4.com/
Yes I understand all this but what I am saying is that someone who specifically subscribes to Sky HD service is highly likely to make the effort to watch C4 shows in HD rather than SD, regardless of where they are in the country.
Every new Sky subscriber gets an HD box nowadays, don't they? Some of them won't even have an HD TV so it would still be more beneficial for advertisers to know that people watching their adverts are in a certain region rather than knowing that they might be watching in HD but then again may not be. Same applies to Freeview boxes.
New subscribers do get an HD box but people who subscribe to the HD service see all the standard def channels switched around with the HD channels so that they are easier to find (aside from the five PSBs).
KE
Did we ever work out how Wales fits in to this nowadays?
Wales is part of the South region.
The regions are known as LEMNUS (London, East (& South), Midlands, North, Ulster & Scotland). I'd be surprised if any of those regions other than Ulster has lower viewing figures than the HD channel.
Did we ever work out how Wales fits in to this nowadays?
Wales is part of the South region.
PE
I was under the impression they only take up transponder space, such is the complexity of tuning in an alternative ITV region. The BBC are different of course, having all their regions up in the 900s.
I think there was a thing a while back where they were unable to add any more channels, despite not all 1000 slots being filled, because of a software problem with some of the older boxes being unable to cope with over 400 (or whatever the number was) channels on the EPG.
Has this ever been rectified? Surely a box swap for their cheapest SD box would be beneficial in terms of potential advertising increases?
Pete
Founding member
I'm not sure it would free up an EPG slot, at least not on Sky. I think even channels not on the EPG take up a position, so all the Channel 4 regions take up a position each even though no one receives all of them.
I was under the impression they only take up transponder space, such is the complexity of tuning in an alternative ITV region. The BBC are different of course, having all their regions up in the 900s.
I think there was a thing a while back where they were unable to add any more channels, despite not all 1000 slots being filled, because of a software problem with some of the older boxes being unable to cope with over 400 (or whatever the number was) channels on the EPG.
Has this ever been rectified? Surely a box swap for their cheapest SD box would be beneficial in terms of potential advertising increases?