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30 years ago today: the smokey globe and the 2s

VM
VMPhil Granada North West Today
Does anyone else prefer the original BBC1 clock design? I still think the background looks nicer.

https://tvark.org/?page=media&mediaid=115356
HC
Hatton Cross Central (West) Midlands Today
Because if the BBC logo itself changed in the lifetime of the orginal set of '2's then, they would have to redo the entire set again with the new logo.

Given Lambie-Nairn has the three coloured lines logo also in his sights, the thinking was to overlay the BBC logo live with every ident, so if it did change, then overlaying a new logo would be far easier - and cheaper than creating a new set with them burnt on?
Readers are warned that this post contains some flash photography
AndrewPSSP, Spencer and LoganStuff gave kudos
ST
steveboswell Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
They'd have also needed to create a version for each of the nations and regions.
VM
VMPhil Granada North West Today
I'm guessing it was simply more cost effective at the time to produce unbranded LaserDisc copies of the idents, and then give network, the nations and the regions a logo generator box. As well as '888' the 1991 globe had the 'Stereo' caption too so that would have been a lot of different versions.

When they started showing the balloons, although the logo now had to be burned in so it could fade up in time with the music, I am pretty sure the subtitles caption was still generated separately for a while, because it would always appear at the start before the BBC One logo formed up. However later on, it did only appear when the logo formed up, so presumably from then on it was burned in too (when the analogue suite was decommissioned?)
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Because if the BBC logo itself changed in the lifetime of the orginal set of '2's then, they would have to redo the entire set again with the new logo.

Given Lambie-Nairn has the three coloured lines logo also in his sights, the thinking was to overlay the BBC logo live with every ident, so if it did change, then overlaying a new logo would be far easier - and cheaper than creating a new set with them burnt on?


A one-off re-edit of each ident from the masters with a different logo doesn’t strike me as a particularly massive task though. And of course, as it happened, they had to re-edit all the original ‘2’ idents anyway to frame them for widescreen at the point when the logo did change in 1997.

They'd have also needed to create a version for each of the nations and regions.


Did the regions not have their logos burnt in anyway (presumably excluding South East)?
LS
LoganStuff Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
When they started showing the balloons, although the logo now had to be burned in so it could fade up in time with the music, I am pretty sure the subtitles caption was still generated separately for a while, because it would always appear at the start before the BBC One logo formed up.


I'm pretty sure the subtitle caption was generated seperately, as originally they had the '888' indicator for subtitles, before switching to the more universally understood 'Subtitles' caption around a year or so after the balloons launched.
Yes, the next post certainly is dreaded.
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I can understand the need to be able to toggle on or off the 888/Subtitles/Stereo DOGs, as at the time each didn’t apply to every programme. But there was never an occasion when the BBC logo wasn’t needed.
VM
VMPhil Granada North West Today
I can understand the need to be able to toggle on or off the 888/Subtitles/Stereo DOGs, as at the time each didn’t apply to every programme. But there was never an occasion when the BBC logo wasn’t needed.

Maybe it was to make sure they all aligned correctly? (since the position of the BBC logo did seem to drift depending on the nation/region)
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I can understand the need to be able to toggle on or off the 888/Subtitles/Stereo DOGs, as at the time each didn’t apply to every programme. But there was never an occasion when the BBC logo wasn’t needed.

Maybe it was to make sure they all aligned correctly? (since the position of the BBC logo did seem to drift depending on the nation/region)


Ah, the days when alignment of such things was important.

And yes, I’m looking at you, BBC Two - Channel of the Year. Wink
TE
Technologist London London
As VM Phil says it was a lot easier to have unbranded laser discs
and then to key the white logo and text all at the same level ....very important ....
all done in analogue component.
If it had been digital it would have been a lot easier to have the text and logo
Separately generated....
RI
Richard Granada North West Today
Because if the BBC logo itself changed in the lifetime of the orginal set of '2's then, they would have to redo the entire set again with the new logo.

Given Lambie-Nairn has the three coloured lines logo also in his sights, the thinking was to overlay the BBC logo live with every ident, so if it did change, then overlaying a new logo would be far easier - and cheaper than creating a new set with them burnt on?


A one-off re-edit of each ident from the masters with a different logo doesn’t strike me as a particularly massive task though. And of course, as it happened, they had to re-edit all the original ‘2’ idents anyway to frame them for widescreen at the point when the logo did change in 1997.

They'd have also needed to create a version for each of the nations and regions.


Did the regions not have their logos burnt in anyway (presumably excluding South East)?

I think BBC South East had a “BBC South” label, at least when I saw it in 1992. Network CA though. It was “BBC South East” on BBC 2 though, as the “First Sight” programme was shown on BBC NI at the time, complete with BBC SE Continuity.

BBC South East and then BBC London idents were used until well into this century.

In terms of why the BBC logo wasn’t burnt in, I think it was easier to distribute one laserdisc version that could be used everywhere (at least in nations, not sure about regions). Where a region or nation name was used, the BBC logo was slightly higher, I think. It also made it easier to change it to say “BBC Alba” in Scotland where required and for BBC South/BBC South East in London. You could also use the same captions with BBC 2 where required.
RW
Robert Williams Founding member London London
When they started showing the balloons, although the logo now had to be burned in so it could fade up in time with the music, I am pretty sure the subtitles caption was still generated separately for a while, because it would always appear at the start before the BBC One logo formed up.


I'm pretty sure the subtitle caption was generated seperately, as originally they had the '888' indicator for subtitles, before switching to the more universally understood 'Subtitles' caption around a year or so after the balloons launched.


If my memory serves me correctly, this was during the period that analogue and digital each had separate continuity - if you were watching on analogue, the subtitles caption was there at the start, whereas on digital, the caption faded in with the BBC ONE logo.

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