TV Home Forum

20 Years (1991-)

(February 2011)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
NW
nwtv2003
I remember at the time the BBC1 globe looking nice and you could tell a lot of effort was put into it, but after so long you just didn't know it was there, and I know for a fact it wasn't missed when it got replaced by the balloon.

Hard to believe it was 20 years ago today they were introduced, man I feel old. I don't remember them being introduced or anything like that, but still remembered watching the COW and TWO idents pretty well.
JO
Jonny
The early-to-mid 90s was a classy time. You had the BBC1 whispy globe, the fabulous 2s, the brilliant perspex 'G' ident on Granada from 95, and the wonderful Channel 4 blocks. All classics IMO.

And, of course, the classiest of them all...
AQ
Aquasetia
The 1991 set of 2s were the best BBC2 idents ever, but I always think the COW was the best BBC1 ident, with the Mirror Globe just behind.
As a rule, I don't like live action idents, but I do find the current 4s to be rather clever.
ST
Stuart
Jonny posted:
The early-to-mid 90s was a classy time. You had the BBC1 whispy globe, the fabulous 2s, the brilliant perspex 'G' ident on Granada from 95, and the wonderful Channel 4 blocks. All classics IMO.

And, of course, the classiest of them all...

Oi! As cheesy as it appears now, I quite liked the C3NE ident. Wink
SO
Steven O
Jonny posted:
The early-to-mid 90s was a classy time. You had the BBC1 whispy globe, the fabulous 2s, the brilliant perspex 'G' ident on Granada from 95, and the wonderful Channel 4 blocks. All classics IMO.

And, of course, the classiest of them all...


I must admit, I quite liked the Channel 3 North East ident. I suspect though that I may be in the minority on this one! Wink

Border too had a classy ident from 1995: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0oppdbqyrU
RW
Robert Williams Founding member
Just noticed the date and realised what anniversary it is today!

16/2/91 is a day I remember very well, and although I knew new idents would be launching that day, I wasn't prepared for what a radical change it would be. Certainly I wasn't at all happy that the existing idents were being done away with. I didn't want to see the BBC1 COW globe go, and the hideous mess that replaced it was such a letdown. I wasn't too keen on the new 2s either at first, the idea of paint being flung onto a figure 2 just seemed plain ridiculous, but over time I grew to like the 2s, while the BBC1 globe just became as innocuous as its previous incarnations.
JO
Jonny
I must admit, I quite liked the Channel 3 North East ident. I suspect though that I may be in the minority on this one! Wink

Border too had a classy ident from 1995: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0oppdbqyrU

I could argue that it's more to do with what the ident represented at the time but I'd be lying - I absolutely loathed it even from a pure design pov. Each to their own. Razz

I'll go with you on the Border ident though, probably the best they had (not that they had many).
Last edited by Jonny on 16 February 2011 12:02pm
CY
cylon6
I remember at the time the BBC1 globe looking nice and you could tell a lot of effort was put into it, but after so long you just didn't know it was there, and I know for a fact it wasn't missed when it got replaced by the balloon.

Hard to believe it was 20 years ago today they were introduced, man I feel old. I don't remember them being introduced or anything like that, but still remembered watching the COW and TWO idents pretty well.


I thought the BBC1 globe was beautiful in 1991 but it seemed out of place with other idents where there several variants such as with BBC2, Carlton, Channel 4 etc. What was happening with the BBC2 logo certainly made the BBC1 globe seem ordinary by comparison.

I think the balloon was the best version of the BBC1 globe even though initially I thought it was rubbish. Hearing those musical cues and watching it fly over locations started to win me over and a week later I was a fully fledged fan. It also helped that it had so many variants at launch so you didn't get bored with it. If possible I think a channel should have enough idents to have a different one for each link during the day.
PC
Paul Clark
A very notable day today. 1991 as a year is significant to me for a couple of reasons - but to be marking an occasion like this with '20 Years', it's a scary number Shocked It just doesn't feel like that long - and lord knows, I wish it wasn't - but the reality is dawning...

I always have generous comment to make on the BBC2 side of this era - you know what to expect from me.

I make no secret of the fact that the 1991 - 1997 era of BBC identities is possibly the period which I recall with the most fondness - as the BBC2 set gradually extended its symbol count and set the bar even higher within 3 years of the original debut; the 'Firework' sequence deserving the first notable mention from my perspective (I champion it, as a real personal favourite; it was one to spark my interest), but more important than many others were 'Car' and 'Dog' for their significance.

Those particular two 1993 sequences at the core of the identity were what gave the '2' its first own true personality within the ident set itself, coupled with the expansion of the regular palette to generously include new background colours. It's no surprise that 'Dog' has arguably gained the popular vote as one of the best-loved and well remembered idents of all time, as has been indicated down the years since.

I think time allows you to view things more objectively - I wouldn't have put that 'Dog' or 'Car' at the top of the list back in the mid-90s, but I can understand completely the appeal of these lively, visually vibrant sequences - the key is the '2' as a character - this is something you simply cannot say about the original 11, and is where my view splits.

Those two from 1993 are far removed from the artsy, slightly cold and still overly serious tone of the originals, and instead feature such personality and warmth, that I don't believe 'Car' or 'Dog' could in any sense be labelled as either "too 90s", or too dated in general. So in retrospect, I have divided them into two camps.

1991 was the dawn of an era - but 1993 was the first peak, without which I doubt they would have gained the same level of interest.

Certainly, in '91, right from the get-go they made a splash(!), the whole set being vastly superior to its predecessor, the reserved and unambitious 'TWO' (which I neither love nor hate, although the late 80s trail design themes are a different kettle of fish). With the likes of 'Paint' - "trick photography" as they called it in the day, though haven't heard the term in ages - and 'Blade' with the fresh elements of surprise and impact, I believe they have cemented their iconic and unforgettable status.

Said idents were among the ones to run the full course, just over a decade - I think now, that was likely a testament to their popularity, more than any other factor. Despite the palette of the early years - in some cases only a streak of viridian amongst varying shades of grey (a scheme I find hard to imagine being used in designs today, and very much of its time) - they were still retained into 1997 and the start of the noughties, while its sister channel soared above with more colourful, scenic and fresh idents.

So perhaps they knew those select group of 1991 idents had become successes beyond what they had ever expected, and rightly kept them in, right until the fall of the curtain in November 2001. No one can argue they weren't iconic. Especially compared to many other identities that have come and gone, and (so long as Youtube, or perhaps more importantly pres sites, continue to exist) they will continue to be.

People can say the 1991 originals which ran to 2001 are iconic - and I'll whole-heartedly agree, without a flicker of hesitation. In fact I'd argue their case as the most iconic idents in the world, and would welcomingly debate it until the cows come home - such is my (some would say over)enthusiasm for them.

But when people say that those ones are still "timeless" - well, it depends on definition. Compared to where Channel 4 and the ITV regions were in 1991 (trying to escape the 80s, by and large), an ident like 'Paint' was well ahead - not just cutting edge, but initially maybe a little ahead of its time by a small measure. But if an ident actually stands the test of time, such that it could be used today and not look out of place, then it has succeeded.

Now, I think many of the 1991 - 2001 full-survivors come near to being truly timeless, and it's a fine line, perhaps depending on the individual idents - but overall as a bunch, I'd say: close, but no cigar - possibly only by a hairbreadth. However, I would say that particular idents starting from the 1993 additions - including such idents as Dog, Car, Firework, Zapper - qualify as timeless. I don't think their execution is such that they wouldn't fit in to a hypothetical modern look; they would, and they have all the right qualities.

I've also heard folks online in general who have repeatedly called for the idents in at least some capacity to be brought back, seemingly at whatever cost. Be careful what you wish for. They are great idents, without question. But that is exactly why it would be wrong to suddenly see them back within a different era, especially now.

We've seen what quite frankly baffling manoeuvres BBC marketing have made in the recent past in two attempts to 'refresh' BBC2 - the one that has actually happened, has failed with flying colours (which happen to be lurid colours beyond compare); the other didn't even come into full effect, if not for somebody having the sudden uncharacteristic realisation that what they were about to air was in fact a superfluous mess. I doubt it was the work of any veteran worth their salt if they don't know their own mind.

That's why I personally don't want such people getting their hands on what is now vintage archive, in any context, full stop; if it's not going to be treated with care, with a sense of the history and significance and some actual understanding, then they should leave it well alone. Remember that fairly recent episode of Panorama with the intermittent Youtube clips of BBC1 'idents'? That was an eye-opener into existing attitudes toward this area, minority or otherwise, and it made it to air. Such displays of astounding ignorance toward heritage and history worry me; I hope they can be remedied, if they haven't done so already. In any case, I'll stick with my own memories, thanks - they are the best form of nostalgia by a mile.

To comment on BBC1: it is an interesting point that possibly because of the ident which didn't quite make the same impact as BBC2, more emphasis is then placed on the stings as a significant part of BBC1 pres, and that's where it really shone down the years. The individual stings only really started circa 1993; but I recall the house concepts which deviated from the typical sting style after this time too.

The BBC1 ident might be viewed as the '1' being the centrepiece, with some seeing the globe as being conceptually just shoehorned in there (understandable, but I wouldn't agree entirely), but that aside, there's some really great use of lighting for the various models that emerge and fade through the cycle. Prior to the introduction of stings, in the formative years some seasonal designs did at least feature the continents, for example early 1992 where they put in a prominent appearance - so outside of the symbol itself, the globe aspect was still given some support, fully deserved.

Haven't mentioned the stings as I was going to (perhaps too often overlooked in the case of BBC2), and the contrast in the 1991 and 2001 looks I've skipped also - but, I reckon I'll leave it for if anyone's interested, as it will save me some time! Razz

Apart from all this waffle; in all honesty, it's great that this date is being remembered. It is also a sobering reminder of how time has gone and things have changed over the years in general - 20 years...
VM
VMPhil
I remember visting the Grampian region sometime in the mid 90s for a family event, sitting in the hotel and thinking I'd been dragged back several years upon my viewing on the 1989 ident, which I later found out lasted well up until the 1998 ITV logo change!
PE
Pete Founding member
You know what, I like the new endboards. It's the placement of the box nonsense that did my head in. If they'd kept it where it was and brought in the new endboards it wouldn't have been half as much of a problem.
CY
cylon6
Paul Clark, I agree with much of what you say. However, I think that it was the stings introduced in 1993 that helped to give the '2' a character. The computer generated jelly '2' that hopped in and out of shot, or the computer generated '2' that made a noise as it was hopping on spots on a floor. When they started to experiment with those stings the 2 became something more than a symbol it became a character.

Newer posts