1989-90 What if?

Mentioning about Thames shows on Channel 4 at weekends in the 1980s, and LWT shows on Channel 4 during weekdays, I raised this topic on another thread, possibly on Facebook.

As I remember at the time, someone said that at weekends, even though Thames wasn't broadcasting, it also wasn't "dark", in that it was still making stuff. It would've also filmed footage for Thames news the next week. In the same way, LWT wasn't "dark" on weekdays, making bits for Weekend World, The London Programme etc.

The 1989 act could have made for an interesting scenario, if it was allowed, so please tell me; Under the new act at the time, ITV and the ITV companies had to commission 25% of their stuff from independent producers. So, let's remember the late 1980s STV drama series "bookie", which was set in a Glasgow bookmakers. Could STV have commissioned that from Border TV, meaning STV was commissioning something but getting another firm to produce it?

If Border TV had set up 'Border Television Productions Ltd' a seperate company with different directors and other shareholders significantly different from 'Border Television Holdings PLC' then technically, yes.
Border TV prods could pitch for and win commissions off other ITV companies.

It was the loophole that LWT span off the studios under The London Studios' name and the programme making arm as 'LWTP'.

Downstream of the 1992 franchise battle, if had LWT lost, then they still had two businesses that could still trade. Studios and LWTP could become an indie and still make the programmes.

Lwt 'span off' their studio facilities arm to 'LWT Production Facilities' so that it could be cast adrift if it didn't work out. *

Time showed that the BBC etc were a little reluctant to make programmes at a company called LWT Production Facilities - bit of a loss of face and all that on the end credits etc - so they changed the name to TLS (buying off a London Dance Studio to get hold of the name I believe) - which looked much better.

* and for the first time could work out what was costing what using cost centres.

It wouldn't be classed as an 'indie'. According to legislation passed in 1991 to be classed an 'independent producer you cannot have more than a 25% shareholding in a broadcaster or be owned more than 25% by a broadcaster. This was changed in 2003 to be a UK broadcasterthe full thing here.

So ITV Studios isn't an Indie, but Thames is (though when it was owned by the owners of Channel 5 I would have thought it wasn't). So a subsidiary of Border TV for example wouldn't be.

There's lots of grey areas though as the sector has gone through so many mergers. For example is Shine/Endemol an indie as it's owned by 20th Century Fox? Love productions (makers of Bake Off) definately aren't as they're owned by Sky etc

Nobody has mentioned whether – after factoring out news and popular networked programmes at prime time – Thames provided a good local service for their region. Some ITV companies were very strongly committed to providing a good local service with a range of quality local programmes but was Thames one of them?

Given the nature of the London weekday region then would it have been better served by a publisher broadcaster rather than a large in-house producer?

He did take a deal with Comedy Central in between C4 and BBC and he didn't really enjoy the experience.

Yeah, he hosted The Graham Norton Effect on Comedy Central, which IIRC was also shown on BBC Three over here, and the American reaction was hostile to say the least. For whatever reason, they found his trademark naughty style to be coarse and inappropriate.

They managed to secure Bette Midler for the first show but Comedy Central blocked it as they said she didn't fit in with the show's demographic. Says all you need to know about how things panned out.

Thank you for the additional GN info.

Wasn't LWT also playing out BFBS during the week?

Mr Cortina will give you chapter and verse on that, they were involved with BFBS playout at one point,
though not using the suite on the South Bank ?

They also provided the 'in programme pres/gfx' for C4 racing

I meant it in a 'good way', back in the 80s, C4 was to ITV what BBC 2 was to BBC 1.