The Newsroom

The Yorkshire and Lincolnshire Thread

(August 2004)

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:-(
A former member
I respectfully but totally disagree with you.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
If we weren't discussing the programme's logo you might have a point. But a logo is one thing that absolutely should be consistent. Sure, have it available in different colour versions for use on different backgrounds, and regular and stacked versions for use in different scenarios.

But the font should be consistent. Or at least sufficiently different that it looks like it's been done deliberately. This change looks looks like it's a mistake, like somebody found something that looked similar and said sod it that'll do. I'm sure that isn't the case and it is a deliberate design choice that makes sense to somebody, but to me it looks a bit jarring.
Lou Scannon, London Lite and dosxuk gave kudos
DO
dosxuk
It cheapens the brand.


You know what makes a brand look really cheap? Everything being the same font, the same colour scheme all the time. That looks cheap, and unimaginative. More intelligent use of colours, and a select few fonts that look good and are readable, used in the right way, that looks a lot better.


No, that's just a mess. A brand is the consistent use of fonts, colours, logos and styles. The consistency is key. Having four fonts as part of your brand identity is fine, provided they're used sensibly (and consistently), but having one offshoot decide to use a unique, entirely different look is them abandoning the brand, not making it stronger.

Admittedly, changing the font is mostly seen as a minor thing, but design wise, it's no difference to changing the accent colour - would people be defending their choice to change elements if they'd actually changed from BBC News red to a pleasant teal colour?

The font used for logos is part of the BBC News look. Until NBH start using a different font for odd shows, I'm not going to accept it being used for random local programming as an officially sanctioned thing. Until then, IMHO, it will just look off-brand and wrong.
CI
cityprod
It cheapens the brand.


You know what makes a brand look really cheap? Everything being the same font, the same colour scheme all the time. That looks cheap, and unimaginative. More intelligent use of colours, and a select few fonts that look good and are readable, used in the right way, that looks a lot better.


No, that's just a mess. A brand is the consistent use of fonts, colours, logos and styles. The consistency is key. Having four fonts as part of your brand identity is fine, provided they're used sensibly (and consistently), but having one offshoot decide to use a unique, entirely different look is them abandoning the brand, not making it stronger.


It's not an entirely different or unique look, it's very much in keeping with the corporate style, and unless I'm mistaken, it's the same font Afternoon Live uses in their title sequence. The title sequence feels like a minor advancement from the Spotlight look.

Quote:
Admittedly, changing the font is mostly seen as a minor thing, but design wise, it's no difference to changing the accent colour - would people be defending their choice to change elements if they'd actually changed from BBC News red to a pleasant teal colour?


You mean like BBC Alba did for their daily news programme, An La?



If it wasn't a big deal for An La, then it wouldn't be a big deal for Look North.

Quote:
The font used for logos is part of the BBC News look. Until NBH start using a different font for odd shows, I'm not going to accept it being used for random local programming as an officially sanctioned thing. Until then, IMHO, it will just look off-brand and wrong.


Again, I'm pretty sure it's the same font used on Afternoon Live's titles. I don't get the same sense of brand cheapening that you do. Maybe because I grew up in the 80s with every news programme having a different look, rather than the corporate looks that came in the 90s. Whatever the reason, I think it's on brand, but just distinct enough to not feel like a simple copy paste job.
LL
London Lite Founding member
The branding inconsistency shows issues that the BBC continue to have that the local teams continue to have a mini fiefdom. As with BBC local radio where there is supposedly a target audience and a shared music policy (except London), it comes down to the managing Editor of how the output is, so on some sites, you get some decent news and entertainment driven output, while others have lazy 'biscuit' type features and banal daytime output to pad the local hours out.

ITV on the whole doesn't have this issue, yes there's a couple of regions (Granada and Border) which use heritage brands alongside the branding guide, but you know that the graphics and opening titles use the same fonts and music, to give a sense that it's all part of the same family. The same can't be said for the two Look North bulletins in Yorkshire.
SP
Steve in Pudsey

Maybe because I grew up in the 80s with every news programme having a different look, rather than the corporate looks that came in the 90s. Whatever the reason, I think it's on brand, but just distinct enough to not feel like a simple copy paste job.


In the 80s the 1, 6 and 9 all had very individual looks, as did each region. There was no corporate look that they were making a subtle change to.

If you're going to use a different font to be different, do it properly

http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/identzone/bbc1/images/bbc1_1984_midlands.jpg

Doing something subtle looks like a mistake.
RI
Richard

You know what makes a brand look really cheap? Everything being the same font, the same colour scheme all the time. That looks cheap, and unimaginative. More intelligent use of colours, and a select few fonts that look good and are readable, used in the right way, that looks a lot better.


No, that's just a mess. A brand is the consistent use of fonts, colours, logos and styles. The consistency is key. Having four fonts as part of your brand identity is fine, provided they're used sensibly (and consistently), but having one offshoot decide to use a unique, entirely different look is them abandoning the brand, not making it stronger.


It's not an entirely different or unique look, it's very much in keeping with the corporate style, and unless I'm mistaken, it's the same font Afternoon Live uses in their title sequence. The title sequence feels like a minor advancement from the Spotlight look.

Quote:
Admittedly, changing the font is mostly seen as a minor thing, but design wise, it's no difference to changing the accent colour - would people be defending their choice to change elements if they'd actually changed from BBC News red to a pleasant teal colour?


You mean like BBC Alba did for their daily news programme, An La?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DETrC8qnhA

If it wasn't a big deal for An La, then it wouldn't be a big deal for Look North.

Quote:
The font used for logos is part of the BBC News look. Until NBH start using a different font for odd shows, I'm not going to accept it being used for random local programming as an officially sanctioned thing. Until then, IMHO, it will just look off-brand and wrong.


Again, I'm pretty sure it's the same font used on Afternoon Live's titles. I don't get the same sense of brand cheapening that you do. Maybe because I grew up in the 80s with every news programme having a different look, rather than the corporate looks that came in the 90s. Whatever the reason, I think it's on brand, but just distinct enough to not feel like a simple copy paste job.


I think An Là is a different issue, given that it’s on a different channel and is not in English. Newyddion’s brand on S4C has changed over the years and has been more on brand than it is now.
Lou Scannon and London Lite gave kudos
MA
Markymark

I think An Là is a different issue, given that it’s on a different channel and is not in English. Newyddion’s brand on S4C has changed over the years and has been more on brand than it is now.


But BBC Alba is still a BBC channel ?

I do agree S4C is a different kettle of fish.....
JA
Jamesypoo


Quote:
Admittedly, changing the font is mostly seen as a minor thing, but design wise, it's no difference to changing the accent colour - would people be defending their choice to change elements if they'd actually changed from BBC News red to a pleasant teal colour?


You mean like BBC Alba did for their daily news programme, An La?

If it wasn't a big deal for An La, then it wouldn't be a big deal for Look North.


The difference being at the time the An La branding was devised, it was perfectly in line with all the other BBC-provided non English language services; Alba, Newyddion, Persia (all had teal accent colours) and Arabic *orange accent colour). The reason it sticks out now is that Persia and Arabic have swtiched to using botched News Channel pres and Newyddion has gone it's own way again.
CI
cityprod


Quote:
Admittedly, changing the font is mostly seen as a minor thing, but design wise, it's no difference to changing the accent colour - would people be defending their choice to change elements if they'd actually changed from BBC News red to a pleasant teal colour?


You mean like BBC Alba did for their daily news programme, An La?

If it wasn't a big deal for An La, then it wouldn't be a big deal for Look North.


The difference being at the time the An La branding was devised, it was perfectly in line with all the other BBC-provided non English language services; Alba, Newyddion, Persia (all had teal accent colours) and Arabic *orange accent colour). The reason it sticks out now is that Persia and Arabic have swtiched to using botched News Channel pres and Newyddion has gone it's own way again.


An La used that style first from 2008, whereas Newyddion started using it in 2010. It was quite distinctive when it launched, and I still think it looks distinctive now, 10 years later.

If anything it doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of colour scheme to connect it to Scotland, but it kinda works.
CI
cityprod

Maybe because I grew up in the 80s with every news programme having a different look, rather than the corporate looks that came in the 90s. Whatever the reason, I think it's on brand, but just distinct enough to not feel like a simple copy paste job.


In the 80s the 1, 6 and 9 all had very individual looks, as did each region. There was no corporate look that they were making a subtle change to.

If you're going to use a different font to be different, do it properly

http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/identzone/bbc1/images/bbc1_1984_midlands.jpg

Doing something subtle looks like a mistake.


I think you can do something subtle as a variation, and it will give it a little bit of distinction from the standard look. I would certainly prefer individual looks, but I'm not as critical of these small variances as others on here are.

I recognise that in any organisation the size of the BBC, keeping strict consistency across the board is a hard job, and a thankless one. For the BBC, I think it would be better to say for the regions, these are the fonts you should use, probably BBC Reith, Gill Sans and Helvatica, and keep it looking like a BBC production. But with how difficult that can be, maybe it's better to not have a corporate style as such, just a set of guidelines that make sense.
JA
Jamesypoo



You mean like BBC Alba did for their daily news programme, An La?

If it wasn't a big deal for An La, then it wouldn't be a big deal for Look North.


The difference being at the time the An La branding was devised, it was perfectly in line with all the other BBC-provided non English language services; Alba, Newyddion, Persia (all had teal accent colours) and Arabic *orange accent colour). The reason it sticks out now is that Persia and Arabic have swtiched to using botched News Channel pres and Newyddion has gone it's own way again.


An La used that style first from 2008, whereas Newyddion started using it in 2010. It was quite distinctive when it launched, and I still think it looks distinctive now, 10 years later.

If anything it doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of colour scheme to connect it to Scotland, but it kinda works.

All I'm saying is that at the time introducing the different accent colour (along with those titles/branding) was clearly a consistent approach to branding non-English services; Alba in September 2008, Persian in January 2009 and so on.

If Yorkshire were to suddenly do it now for Look North, it wouldn't be part of a consistent, multi-platform approach across the corporation (unless of course the other regions followed suit).

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