The Newsroom

US TV Choppers Crash Covering Car Chase

Four killed in accident (July 2007)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
LI
LifeISgr8
There is a difference and being charged does not mean much. Emotions are high, charges are not hard to bring down. US law is all about precedent and arguing precedent. In this case, there is very little if any in the way of directly relatable precedent, therefore the prosecutor will need to SET precedent, which is very hard to do.

noggin posted:
channel2tv posted:
LifeISgr8 posted:
.. here in the states (although I work in tv news). The charge will likely never happen. Had it been a ground crash, yes. If anything he may be liable in civil court.


The County Attorney in Phoenix interprets laws in a very populist manner, according to my boss at PBS. So, I think he will find some ways to charge the SOB.


Presumably there is a difference between being charged, being taken to trial and being found guilty?

I'm not an expert on US law - but I assume the County Attorney has some equivalence with the UK's "Crown Prosecution Service" who decide whether to take a case to court or not?

I guess a major difference is that the CPS is a national organisation, rather than an elected local official?

Certainly, if this horrible accident had happened between helicopters working for ITN and the BBC I would expect a whole number of organisations to investigate - Civil Aviation Authority, Police, Health and Safety Executive spring to mind - and certainly the HSE would be asking very serious questions of the broadcasters, and the operators (UK broadcasters almost universally lease or hire rather than own their helicopters - even if they are covered in promotional branding) of the helicopters.
SE
seamus
Jesus Christ. The driver did not kill, or unknowingly kill the people helicopter. It crashed on it's own accord, whatever happened. An even better example I thought would be that there was a car accident, and the traffic was backed up for miles, and 2 helicopters collided, and all the people on board were killed. Would the person who caused the crash by accident be charged for killing somebody? I think not. It's the same principal.
PH
phoenixrises
LifeISgr8 posted:
There is a difference and being charged does not mean much. Emotions are high, charges are not hard to bring down. US law is all about precedent and arguing precedent. In this case, there is very little if any in the way of directly relatable precedent, therefore the prosecutor will need to SET precedent, which is very hard to do.

noggin posted:
channel2tv posted:
LifeISgr8 posted:
.. here in the states (although I work in tv news). The charge will likely never happen. Had it been a ground crash, yes. If anything he may be liable in civil court.


The County Attorney in Phoenix interprets laws in a very populist manner, according to my boss at PBS. So, I think he will find some ways to charge the SOB.


Presumably there is a difference between being charged, being taken to trial and being found guilty?

I'm not an expert on US law - but I assume the County Attorney has some equivalence with the UK's "Crown Prosecution Service" who decide whether to take a case to court or not?

I guess a major difference is that the CPS is a national organisation, rather than an elected local official?

Certainly, if this horrible accident had happened between helicopters working for ITN and the BBC I would expect a whole number of organisations to investigate - Civil Aviation Authority, Police, Health and Safety Executive spring to mind - and certainly the HSE would be asking very serious questions of the broadcasters, and the operators (UK broadcasters almost universally lease or hire rather than own their helicopters - even if they are covered in promotional branding) of the helicopters.


Look, the entire thing will pin down to the judge's willingness to stick to Stare Decisis, which there are some who will not. (I took a PoliSci class in uni, so I know what I am talking about- to an extent)
DO
dodrade
There's no way this will stick. Let's face it the crash happened either because of mechanical failure or pilot error. To try to redirect the blame on the driver is dangerous and foolish.

It reminds me of a case on pissed and pregnant on BBC 3 last week, when they attempted to charge a pregnant alcoholic in Wisconsin with attempted murder of her unborn child. That didn't work and neither will this.
PH
phoenixrises
Now, come to think of it, the charges that the criminal faces is already enough to put him in prison for 100+ years. I can go with that.
GI
gilsta
So would you like to see any type of review of procedures for helicopters covering car chases or is this guy being locked up enough for you?
TI
timgraham
c2tv, your blog post (can't remember how I came accross it but I did) seemed to indicate that helicopter crashes involving local news crews had happened before. Is noone within the US wondering why this needs to be the case?

Surely stations could pool resources (my understanding is that news services in Melbourne do it quite often) or even have, like others have suggested, a single helicopter with footage.

It's a sad state of affairs when someone who had nothing to do with these deaths is being demonised for it - certainly he was doing the wrong thing, but that doesn't mean there isn't fault elsewhere. c2tv, it seems that you'd be happy to lock up what many would view as an innocent man, and see local stations go back to what appear to be poor practices.
PH
phoenixrises
timgraham posted:
c2tv, your blog post (can't remember how I came accross it but I did) seemed to indicate that helicopter crashes involving local news crews had happened before. Is noone within the US wondering why this needs to be the case?

Surely stations could pool resources (my understanding is that news services in Melbourne do it quite often) or even have, like others have suggested, a single helicopter with footage.

It's a sad state of affairs when someone who had nothing to do with these deaths is being demonised for it - certainly he was doing the wrong thing, but that doesn't mean there isn't fault elsewhere. c2tv, it seems that you'd be happy to lock up what many would view as an innocent man, and see local stations go back to what appear to be poor practices.


The last time a news helicopter crashed in Phoenix was when a pilot was disoriented by some flare or rocket, and crashed. I was still young back then, and I don't know what happened after that. I only knew about this after I saw it on the news.

Innocent man, timgraham? This criminal stole not one, but two cars, and led police on a police chase, and barricaded himself in a house on the west side of the city!

Let's see here
Car theft: check twice
Resisting arrest: check
Unlawful flight: check

Not that innocent now, is it?
PH
phoenixrises
gilsta posted:
So would you like to see any type of review of procedures for helicopters covering car chases or is this guy being locked up enough for you?


For now, lock this guy up and throw away the keys.

In the long run, yes a good look into helicopter procedures would make some sense.

Pooling resources? I am opposed to it, but on the grounds that stations have different angles of news that such an idea is impossible.
M
M@ Founding member
channel2tv posted:
gilsta posted:
So would you like to see any type of review of procedures for helicopters covering car chases or is this guy being locked up enough for you?


For now, lock this guy up and throw away the keys.

In the long run, yes a good look into helicopter procedures would make some sense.

Pooling resources? I am opposed to it, but on the grounds that stations have different angles of news that such an idea is impossible.


I'm having a lot of difficulty resisting the temptation to respond in full to this post as I don't think I'll get anywhere. I'll not get anything out of it and neither will you. So I won't. I'll just wish you the best of luck in seeking justice for the deaths of two men who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and a very long career delivering balanced, hard hitting news.
PH
phoenixrises
M@ posted:
channel2tv posted:
gilsta posted:
So would you like to see any type of review of procedures for helicopters covering car chases or is this guy being locked up enough for you?


For now, lock this guy up and throw away the keys.

In the long run, yes a good look into helicopter procedures would make some sense.

Pooling resources? I am opposed to it, but on the grounds that stations have different angles of news that such an idea is impossible.


I'm having a lot of difficulty resisting the temptation to respond in full to this post as I don't think I'll get anywhere. I'll not get anything out of it and neither will you. So I won't. I'll just wish you the best of luck in seeking justice for the deaths of two men who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and a very long career delivering balanced, hard hitting news.


I am not seeking justice. The people (AKA the County Attorney) will.
M
M@ Founding member
channel2tv posted:
M@ posted:
channel2tv posted:
gilsta posted:
So would you like to see any type of review of procedures for helicopters covering car chases or is this guy being locked up enough for you?


For now, lock this guy up and throw away the keys.

In the long run, yes a good look into helicopter procedures would make some sense.

Pooling resources? I am opposed to it, but on the grounds that stations have different angles of news that such an idea is impossible.


I'm having a lot of difficulty resisting the temptation to respond in full to this post as I don't think I'll get anywhere. I'll not get anything out of it and neither will you. So I won't. I'll just wish you the best of luck in seeking justice for the deaths of two men who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and a very long career delivering balanced, hard hitting news.


I am not seeking justice. The people (AKA the County Attorney) will.


Muuuuch better.

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