AN
Neil mate, go and have a brew and calm yourself down.
Yes, I'd second that. Your recent posts Ne1L don't particularly make for pleasant reading so take some time to think about how your posts come across in future, rather than just venting.
CI
There's so much wrong with this piece that I can't even begin to go into detail on it. Suffice to say that it's full of the usual, "I don't like this, it should go" rubbish that populates so much of the discussion on what the BBC spends its money on. It doesn't even take into account the thing that people forget that each department has its own budget, and transferring money between departments internally like is being suggested here, isn't a small matter. It should be easy, but it's not. The same applies by the way to local councils.
The old "Focus on what the audience wants" argument has been used against public service broadcasters for so many years now, it's become a trope. Public Service Broadcasting isn't just about giving the audience what they want, but also what they need. But the thing is, if you look around, you'll find that they are giving people what they want. The Gemma Collins Podcast is currently number 177 on iTunes, in a universe of podcasts that sees 2 BBC podcasts in the top 10, 8 in the top 20, and 16 in the top 50. There's plenty of room for all sorts of stuff, whether you or I care for it or not.
The old "Focus on what the audience wants" argument has been used against public service broadcasters for so many years now, it's become a trope. Public Service Broadcasting isn't just about giving the audience what they want, but also what they need. But the thing is, if you look around, you'll find that they are giving people what they want. The Gemma Collins Podcast is currently number 177 on iTunes, in a universe of podcasts that sees 2 BBC podcasts in the top 10, 8 in the top 20, and 16 in the top 50. There's plenty of room for all sorts of stuff, whether you or I care for it or not.
NL
I think I should apologise for some posts. It was something of a rant and all I can say is that it was a heat of the moment thing. We’re all feeling the strain at the moment and our emotions and nerves are frayed.
I still maintain that BBC news has done a fantastic job over the last few months and has done so despite a lot of criticism. I studied journalism at college for 4 years and gained an incredible amount of understanding as to the pressures of the industry.
What made me mad was the idea that the BBC is unreliable in its reports. The cuts to the news budget are in my opinion wrong at this time.
I still maintain that BBC news has done a fantastic job over the last few months and has done so despite a lot of criticism. I studied journalism at college for 4 years and gained an incredible amount of understanding as to the pressures of the industry.
What made me mad was the idea that the BBC is unreliable in its reports. The cuts to the news budget are in my opinion wrong at this time.
Last edited by Ne1L C on 16 August 2020 10:26am - 2 times in total
JW
The biggest crime you’ve committed Ne1L is to admit to drinking Carling! Especially when I was offering sherry.
*sends hugs and hello across the oceans and mountains*
Going back to the subject of the BBC, and I can’t even begin to be as eloquent as Sebastian and the Producer were, but the BBC is damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Moreso than any other broadcaster.
There will always be supporters and there will always be critics, and it will continue to provoke intelligent debate like we’ve seen above.
It’s, however, interesting that the majority of our dialogue has focussed on the BBC rather than commending or questioning Sky News on their “win”.
And even if BBC News had topped the poll rather than Sky News, we’d probably still have debated the state of the BBC as opposed to any other broadcast outlet which fared lower in the poll.
Funny that.
*sends hugs and hello across the oceans and mountains*
Going back to the subject of the BBC, and I can’t even begin to be as eloquent as Sebastian and the Producer were, but the BBC is damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Moreso than any other broadcaster.
There will always be supporters and there will always be critics, and it will continue to provoke intelligent debate like we’ve seen above.
It’s, however, interesting that the majority of our dialogue has focussed on the BBC rather than commending or questioning Sky News on their “win”.
And even if BBC News had topped the poll rather than Sky News, we’d probably still have debated the state of the BBC as opposed to any other broadcast outlet which fared lower in the poll.
Funny that.
@JamesWorldNews | #StayHomeSaveLives
NL
I think the reason why Sky News hasn't been referred to in the discussion much is that it is a different animal to the BBC. Yes Sky News is a superb service but it doesn’t have the same “pull” on the national psyche.
I think when many hear “BBC” it invokes very strong emotions, The national broadcaster, bringing us together in times of triumph and tragedy. Yet it has had multiple running battles with not just the political. establishment but also with its critics, the Sun newspaper during the Falklands War questioning the BBC's impartiality is perhaps one of the the most famous (or infamous depending on your point of view) examples.
Sky News is just that. A standalone news channel which can afford to cater for a specific part of the audience. BBC News is a "hybrid". By that I mean its not just a standalone station but also part of the network as a whole and being part of the BBC has its own responsibilities.
Many years ago the Continuity announcers would make introducing the BBC News an important event " The Nine O'clock News from The BBC giving us the notion that this was the authority in news. Times have changed but people haven't. The BBC's legacy for want of a better word has resulted in the corporation having a special place in the collective psyche of the nation but also has left it more vulnerable than most to criticism and more susceptible to government interference.
@JamesWorldNews. Sherry it is
The biggest crime you’ve committed Ne1L is to admit to drinking Carling! Especially when I was offering sherry.
*sends hugs and hello across the oceans and mountains*
Going back to the subject of the BBC, and I can’t even begin to be as eloquent as Sebastian and the Producer were, but the BBC is damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Moreso than any other broadcaster.
There will always be supporters and there will always be critics, and it will continue to provoke intelligent debate like we’ve seen above.
It’s, however, interesting that the majority of our dialogue has focussed on the BBC rather than commending or questioning Sky News on their “win”.
And even if BBC News had topped the poll rather than Sky News, we’d probably still have debated the state of the BBC as opposed to any other broadcast outlet which fared lower in the poll.
Funny that.
*sends hugs and hello across the oceans and mountains*
Going back to the subject of the BBC, and I can’t even begin to be as eloquent as Sebastian and the Producer were, but the BBC is damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Moreso than any other broadcaster.
There will always be supporters and there will always be critics, and it will continue to provoke intelligent debate like we’ve seen above.
It’s, however, interesting that the majority of our dialogue has focussed on the BBC rather than commending or questioning Sky News on their “win”.
And even if BBC News had topped the poll rather than Sky News, we’d probably still have debated the state of the BBC as opposed to any other broadcast outlet which fared lower in the poll.
Funny that.
I think the reason why Sky News hasn't been referred to in the discussion much is that it is a different animal to the BBC. Yes Sky News is a superb service but it doesn’t have the same “pull” on the national psyche.
I think when many hear “BBC” it invokes very strong emotions, The national broadcaster, bringing us together in times of triumph and tragedy. Yet it has had multiple running battles with not just the political. establishment but also with its critics, the Sun newspaper during the Falklands War questioning the BBC's impartiality is perhaps one of the the most famous (or infamous depending on your point of view) examples.
Sky News is just that. A standalone news channel which can afford to cater for a specific part of the audience. BBC News is a "hybrid". By that I mean its not just a standalone station but also part of the network as a whole and being part of the BBC has its own responsibilities.
Many years ago the Continuity announcers would make introducing the BBC News an important event " The Nine O'clock News from The BBC giving us the notion that this was the authority in news. Times have changed but people haven't. The BBC's legacy for want of a better word has resulted in the corporation having a special place in the collective psyche of the nation but also has left it more vulnerable than most to criticism and more susceptible to government interference.
@JamesWorldNews. Sherry it is
Last edited by Ne1L C on 15 August 2020 8:47am - 2 times in total
TE
I agree on the trust etc etc and the excellence of the Regional output
But it's overheads are also low ... arround 7%
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/reports/pdf/ey_benchmarking.pdf
One issue with staff numbers is that the BBC has reduced the amount of Services it outsources so it takes in more staff as a result...
And are the 150 journalists it pays but does not employ an overhead ?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/reports/reports/lnp-review-2020.pdf
But it's overheads are also low ... arround 7%
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/reports/pdf/ey_benchmarking.pdf
One issue with staff numbers is that the BBC has reduced the amount of Services it outsources so it takes in more staff as a result...
And are the 150 journalists it pays but does not employ an overhead ?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/reports/reports/lnp-review-2020.pdf
NL
I’m no management expert so can’t comment on that area but it seem to me that a financial check is needed. I’m not a podcast listener so I can’t feel justified in commenting on that.However I do feel news should be ring-fenced
CM
I am also no management expert but all I'm going to say is that I don't see why one of the most well funded PSBs in the World can only afford to run its UK news channel for more than 9 hours a day of rolling news, repeats of Garden Rescue pretty much daily on BBC One and very little new content for BBC Two and Four.
Whoever is running BBC Three is clearly doing a good job as they can get a great deal of programmes out all of the time.
Whoever is running BBC Three is clearly doing a good job as they can get a great deal of programmes out all of the time.
NL
It’s a bit silly I agree.Im not going to criticise the output itself.I do believe that the likes of Bargain Hunt etc have had a calming effect on viewers during the last few months but some kind of realignment is needled.
SO
Should note that these are scores by consumers of that service - the Ofcom dataset is clear its based on users of a service not a general opinion poll.
This is why niche services like CNN and AJE and yes, Sky News score well. You only watch them for their news content and would be likely avoid them if you didn't feel value in their content.
The two main PSB channels are mass market services with huge appeal, so likely to have a broad audience with differing views - and more likely to see content they personally disagree with.
Given Ofcom include UK licenced CNN and AJE, with better audience scores than Sky News I'm not sure why Kay is making up a nonexistent sub catagory.
Lots of issues with the BBC, but this isn't a fair or accurate comparison tool.
More interesting are the poor Channel 5 scores. Never has a channel run a news service so far removed from its own audience - it feels to me like it's a uni graduate course in news production running order of 'woke' topics and treatments written by HuffPost and Buzzfeed redundant journalists. Just awful, and it looks like the viewers agree something is wrong.
Ben Frow and team nail most things on the channel to the right audience. I'm at a loss to understand how they let ITN run it as a training school for Channel 4 news rather than a popular mainstream service.[/quote]
I don’t really recognise this critique of 5 News- it generally does the same stories you’ll see on that day’s ITV EN or BBC News. You make it seem more distinctive that it actually is! I think the mainstream TV bulletins today on BBC, ITV and C5 have never been more identical.
The sort of ‘woke’ stuff you’d have seen on Victoria Derbyshire (for example) doesn’t really feature on 5 News no more than it does on Sky News (I assume you mean the occasional story about LGBT rights or whatever. Everyone does HuffPo-type poverty stuff). The 630 5 News programme does sometimes feature discussions which seem a bit worthy but that’s probably more of a deliberate effort to not ape the more provocative, shouty debates on GMB.
This is why niche services like CNN and AJE and yes, Sky News score well. You only watch them for their news content and would be likely avoid them if you didn't feel value in their content.
The two main PSB channels are mass market services with huge appeal, so likely to have a broad audience with differing views - and more likely to see content they personally disagree with.
Given Ofcom include UK licenced CNN and AJE, with better audience scores than Sky News I'm not sure why Kay is making up a nonexistent sub catagory.
Lots of issues with the BBC, but this isn't a fair or accurate comparison tool.
More interesting are the poor Channel 5 scores. Never has a channel run a news service so far removed from its own audience - it feels to me like it's a uni graduate course in news production running order of 'woke' topics and treatments written by HuffPost and Buzzfeed redundant journalists. Just awful, and it looks like the viewers agree something is wrong.
Ben Frow and team nail most things on the channel to the right audience. I'm at a loss to understand how they let ITN run it as a training school for Channel 4 news rather than a popular mainstream service.[/quote]
I don’t really recognise this critique of 5 News- it generally does the same stories you’ll see on that day’s ITV EN or BBC News. You make it seem more distinctive that it actually is! I think the mainstream TV bulletins today on BBC, ITV and C5 have never been more identical.
The sort of ‘woke’ stuff you’d have seen on Victoria Derbyshire (for example) doesn’t really feature on 5 News no more than it does on Sky News (I assume you mean the occasional story about LGBT rights or whatever. Everyone does HuffPo-type poverty stuff). The 630 5 News programme does sometimes feature discussions which seem a bit worthy but that’s probably more of a deliberate effort to not ape the more provocative, shouty debates on GMB.
NL
I do appreciate that issues behind the news have to be examined and indeed welcome a more in depth examination but perhaps as a programme in itself.
This my be regarded as an old fashioned view but the news should be kept as a pure “entity” with a debate after a break.
This my be regarded as an old fashioned view but the news should be kept as a pure “entity” with a debate after a break.