The Newsroom

Sky News | General Discussion

(January 2018)

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VM
VMPhil
BBC News 24 was widescreen (in the studio) from the start, though as posted above you couldn't see it that way until digital launched, and OBs were still 4:3 for a long time I believe.

The national bulletins on BBC One and BBC Two didn't go widescreen until 2 October 2000 (alongside the launch of BBC Breakfast).
WO
Woodpecker
VMPhil posted:
BBC News 24 was widescreen (in the studio) from the start, though as posted above you couldn't see it that way until digital launched, and OBs were still 4:3 for a long time I believe.

The national bulletins on BBC One and BBC Two didn't go widescreen until 2 October 2000 (alongside the launch of BBC Breakfast).


Cheers for that. Am I right in thinking that the BBC were the first broadcasters in Europe, if not the world, to produce/transmit the news in widescreen? I know VRT in Belgium went widescreen in 2002, with commercial rivals VTM following suit two years later, but most European broadcasters didn't seem to switch until around 2007. (I realise I've probably answered my own question here, to be fair...)
:-(
A former member
its the other side of that studio : you do see a man with a brush....



RK
Rkolsen
Woodpecker posted:
VMPhil posted:
BBC News 24 was widescreen (in the studio) from the start, though as posted above you couldn't see it that way until digital launched, and OBs were still 4:3 for a long time I believe.

The national bulletins on BBC One and BBC Two didn't go widescreen until 2 October 2000 (alongside the launch of BBC Breakfast).


Cheers for that. Am I right in thinking that the BBC were the first broadcasters in Europe, if not the world, to produce/transmit the news in widescreen? I know VRT in Belgium went widescreen in 2002, with commercial rivals VTM following suit two years later, but most European broadcasters didn't seem to switch until around 2007. (I realise I've probably answered my own question here, to be fair...)


Very true. But a more amazing feat is that a few days after the BBC went widescreen WRAL in Raleigh converted to an HD newscast (and thus widescreen) on October 13, 2000 and in January of 2001 all newsgahering went HD.
TV
TVViewer256
623058 posted:
its the other side of that studio : you do see a man with a brush....




The cameras there are like the glass box. They follow a presenter around, hence Johnathan’s hand movement to stop it from going off the set
NG
noggin Founding member
Woodpecker posted:
noggin posted:
Rkolsen posted:

Wasn’t BBC News before ITV Digital/Freview/FreeSat launched carried on cable? I know there’s only one or two providers now. According to this article it was only available in two million homes.


Yes - BBC News 24 was only available to consumers on analogue cable and overnight on BBC One for the first year of broadcast (Nov '97 until Nov '9Cool It was thus only available in 14:9 letterbox (as both analogue cable and BBC One overnight were still 4:3 analogue outlets)

It was almost certainly being carried on the various DVB-T test broadcasts that were happening, as was BBC Choice when it soft-launched (it wasn't on cable AFAIK)

The hard launch of DTT (and BBC services on DSat) was the same day that BBC News 24 moved from N9 to N8 in Nov '98 I think, and that was also the day that UK Today started covering the regional opt-out slots for BBC One digital (DTT and DSat were England-wide for BBC One). That was the first day that BBC 16:9 full-height broadcasts were available to consumers in the UK I think (so in theory nobody should have been able to have seen BBC News 24 from N9 in full-height 16:9 at home, only NCool


When exactly did BBC News become 16:9?


BBC News 24 was 16:9 production from launch in Nov 1997, but only initially available to viewers at home in 14:9 letterbox until November 1998 when digital TV outlets (Sky Digital, OnDigital etc.) launched. (Although the BBC wasn't part of ONDigital, initially ONDigital receivers and IDTVs were the only digital terrestrial receivers)

BBC World News went 16:9 in production when they moved into N9 (sometime in 1999) - but I think were initially only available 14:9 letterbox (not sure when 16:9 transmission started)
** EDIT - corrected typo in studio name - it was N9 that World moved into in 1999 **

BBC One/Two News went 16:9 full-time sometime in Autumn 2000 - but this wasn't the first time that they had produced 16:9 News. They had switched briefly to 16:9 for '2000 Today' where they were news inserts into the main BBC One show. They switched the N6 gallery to 16:9 for that show - with cameras in TC1 fed back to N6, and then TC1 cutting up N6's output, for the news bulletin, and then reverted to 4:3 once the news bulletins moved back into N6's studio.
Last edited by noggin on 23 February 2018 12:03pm - 2 times in total
WO
Woodpecker
noggin posted:
Woodpecker posted:
noggin posted:

Yes - BBC News 24 was only available to consumers on analogue cable and overnight on BBC One for the first year of broadcast (Nov '97 until Nov '9Cool It was thus only available in 14:9 letterbox (as both analogue cable and BBC One overnight were still 4:3 analogue outlets)

It was almost certainly being carried on the various DVB-T test broadcasts that were happening, as was BBC Choice when it soft-launched (it wasn't on cable AFAIK)

The hard launch of DTT (and BBC services on DSat) was the same day that BBC News 24 moved from N9 to N8 in Nov '98 I think, and that was also the day that UK Today started covering the regional opt-out slots for BBC One digital (DTT and DSat were England-wide for BBC One). That was the first day that BBC 16:9 full-height broadcasts were available to consumers in the UK I think (so in theory nobody should have been able to have seen BBC News 24 from N9 in full-height 16:9 at home, only NCool


When exactly did BBC News become 16:9?


BBC News 24 was 16:9 production from launch in Nov 1997, but only initially available to viewers at home in 14:9 letterbox until November 1998 when digital TV outlets (Sky Digital, OnDigital etc.) launched. (Although the BBC wasn't part of ONDigital, initially ONDigital receivers and IDTVs were the only digital terrestrial receivers)

BBC World News went 16:9 in production when they moved into N8 (sometime in 1999) - but I think were initially only available 14:9 letterbox (not sure when 16:9 transmission started)

BBC One/Two News went 16:9 full-time sometime in Autumn 2000 - but this wasn't the first time that they had produced 16:9 News. They had switched briefly to 16:9 for '2000 Today' where they were news inserts into the main BBC One show. They switched the N6 gallery to 16:9 for that show - with cameras in TC1 fed back to N6, and then TC1 cutting up N6's output, for the news bulletin, and then reverted to 4:3 once the news bulletins moved back into N6's studio.


Thank you, this is very interesting stuff. ISTR that BBC World didn't start widescreen broadcasts until 2009 - in fact, there's a video on YouTube of the first 16:9 bulletin:



(Sorry for the dodgy widescreen switching/lack of it - it was the only video I could find.)
NG
noggin Founding member
Rkolsen posted:
Woodpecker posted:
VMPhil posted:
BBC News 24 was widescreen (in the studio) from the start, though as posted above you couldn't see it that way until digital launched, and OBs were still 4:3 for a long time I believe.

The national bulletins on BBC One and BBC Two didn't go widescreen until 2 October 2000 (alongside the launch of BBC Breakfast).


Cheers for that. Am I right in thinking that the BBC were the first broadcasters in Europe, if not the world, to produce/transmit the news in widescreen? I know VRT in Belgium went widescreen in 2002, with commercial rivals VTM following suit two years later, but most European broadcasters didn't seem to switch until around 2007. (I realise I've probably answered my own question here, to be fair...)


Very true. But a more amazing feat is that a few days after the BBC went widescreen WRAL in Raleigh converted to an HD newscast (and thus widescreen) on October 13, 2000 and in January of 2001 all newsgahering went HD.


Yes - the US (and Aus) went HD a LOT earlier than Europe. However as a result both are saddled with an ancient, inefficient codec and modulation system for HD broadcasting.

We all have NHK in Japan to thank for HDTV though - their original HiVision standard developed in the 70s (and used - for example - at the 1984 LA Olympics) is effectively the baseband 1080i standard we use today (it was 1035i and 1050i before it settled on 1080i - and it shifted from 60.00Hz to 59.94Hz - but the overall 1125 line standard is pretty near identical).

It's important to remember Japan was broadcasting in HD from the late 80s using their analogue MUSE standard fed with HiVision production gear. (They had 1" open-reel digital VTRs in the late 80s... The BBC shot a drama with NHK using that gear. There was a MUSE-based laserdisc standard for HD movies too - a precursor to Blu-ray, before DVD existed...)
RK
Rkolsen
Now in the late 90s were TVs sold in 4:3 or 14:9 aspect ratio?
CI
cityprod
Rkolsen posted:
Now in the late 90s were TVs sold in 4:3 or 14:9 aspect ratio?


There never was a 14:9 aspect ratio TV made. 4:3 was the standard ration until they started producing 16:9 ratio TVs.

When a 16:9 programme was shown on a 4:3 analogue feed, rather than do 4:3 centre cut out, UK broadcasters did a faux widescreen of 14:9, which cut off the far edges of the 16:9 image, but also had small black bars top and bottom.
RI
Richard
[url][/url]
cityprod posted:
Rkolsen posted:
Now in the late 90s were TVs sold in 4:3 or 14:9 aspect ratio?


There never was a 14:9 aspect ratio TV made. 4:3 was the standard ration until they started producing 16:9 ratio TVs.

When a 16:9 programme was shown on a 4:3 analogue feed, rather than do 4:3 centre cut out, UK broadcasters did a faux widescreen of 14:9, which cut off the far edges of the 16:9 image, but also had small black bars top and bottom.

Apart from sport, which did go out centre cut out on analogue.
WO
Woodpecker
noggin posted:
Rkolsen posted:
Woodpecker posted:

Cheers for that. Am I right in thinking that the BBC were the first broadcasters in Europe, if not the world, to produce/transmit the news in widescreen? I know VRT in Belgium went widescreen in 2002, with commercial rivals VTM following suit two years later, but most European broadcasters didn't seem to switch until around 2007. (I realise I've probably answered my own question here, to be fair...)


Very true. But a more amazing feat is that a few days after the BBC went widescreen WRAL in Raleigh converted to an HD newscast (and thus widescreen) on October 13, 2000 and in January of 2001 all newsgahering went HD.


Yes - the US (and Aus) went HD a LOT earlier than Europe. However as a result both are saddled with an ancient, inefficient codec and modulation system for HD broadcasting.

We all have NHK in Japan to thank for HDTV though - their original HiVision standard developed in the 70s (and used - for example - at the 1984 LA Olympics) is effectively the baseband 1080i standard we use today (it was 1035i and 1050i before it settled on 1080i - and it shifted from 60.00Hz to 59.94Hz - but the overall 1125 line standard is pretty near identical).

It's important to remember Japan was broadcasting in HD from the late 80s using their analogue MUSE standard fed with HiVision production gear. (They had 1" open-reel digital VTRs in the late 80s... The BBC shot a drama with NHK using that gear. There was a MUSE-based laserdisc standard for HD movies too - a precursor to Blu-ray, before DVD existed...)


Some interesting footage of New York City in 1993, filmed to demonstrate the MUSE standard that you mentioned:

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