The Newsroom

Regional news boundaries

Split from Best and Worst Regional Titles and Themes (August 2020)

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MK
Mr Kite
Some of those are too small, really. I do think the current local radio boundaries would be ideal for most of England, at least as sub-opts within a larger regional network.

You could broadly achieve some of these (more or less) with the existing transmitter network in some regions. BBC North East & Cumbria, for example, could split quite neatly into three - Cumbria (Caldbeck), Newcastle (Pontop Pike/Chatton) and Tees (Bilsdale).

The North West is probably the most difficult area, with one dominant transmitter in Winter Hill. In terms of households, it's the second largest BBC region after London. I think a three way split would be ideal here for subregions, similar to both the local radio stations and the local TV. Like the local TV, this could only really be achieved by separate directional broadcasts, with their own frequencies so they could overlap slightly.

As an aside, I have often wondered how far the Storeton transmitter reaches. Only a minority, mostly in the south of Merseyside use it out of necessity because they can't receive Winter Hill but I do wonder if it actually reaches much further with most people having their aerials focused on Winter Hill as a legacy.
Last edited by Mr Kite on 19 August 2020 12:48pm
LL
London Lite Founding member
Thing is though that even counties are arbitrary, people's idea of what is local and what areas they are interested in varies. Being able to customise news is the only way to please everyone, I've not seen anywhere that will let me have a selection of stories from, say 20 miles round my house, 10 miles round my parents etc


Doesn't this do exactly that? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/localnews - allows you to choose from a radius of 5 miles up to 30 miles.

Yes, good point, I'd forgotten about that feature. Though the first result (there's not many other stories, I must live in a quiet area!) is a regional 'live blog' which has a much wider catchment area. It's not the BBCs fault it's site had been reduced down to that, but it's not 'local'.

As I say people's area of interest varies, and it's not necessarily a radius, there's a way to go to fully customise local news... and I'm not sure the public interest is really there


It appears to work better in London where there's a busy timeline of 'local' news from within London.
MA
Markymark
Some of those are too small, really. I do think the current local radio boundaries would be ideal for most of England, at least as sub-opts within a larger regional network.

You could broadly achieve some of these (more or less) with the existing transmitter network in some regions. BBC North East & Cumbria, for example, could split quite neatly into three - Cumbria (Caldbeck), Newcastle (Pontop Pike/Chatton) and Tees (Billsdale).

The North West is probably the most difficult area, with one dominant transmitter in Winter Hill. In terms of households, it's the second largest BBC region after London. I think a three way split would be ideal here for subregions, similar to both the local radio stations and the local TV. Like the local TV, this could only really be achieved by separate directional broadcasts, with their own frequencies so they could overlap slightly.

As an aside, I have often wondered how far the Storeton transmitter reaches. Only a minority, mostly in the south of Merseyside use it out of necessity because they can't receive Winter Hill but I do wonder if it actually reaches much further with most people having their aerials focused on Winter Hill as a legacy.


I think Granada did explore the possibility of using Storeton for a Merseyside service, you're possibly right, its gross coverage exceeds that of its actual use.?

The problems splitting up regions into their component main station coverage are 'deep' overlaps. Bilsdale is used way into Tyneside, Hannington all the way down to the coast, etc. Also relays are not fed from necessarily the most logical parent. When Westcountry split their region up quite a few relays had to be reallocated. With DTT all three muxes have to be fed from the same parent, so if the BBC were to implement such a scheme, ITV/4 would have to follow suit.

It would all get rather expensive I think?
TE
Technologist
Besides that fact that many in Storetons notional service are use WinterHill, there are also some embarrassing holes within its service area I seem to remember from analogue days ..... likewise but less so Crosspool for Sheffield

Also from those days say mid 90s the BBC reattributed the relays between Hannington and Rowridge to pick up the nearer transmitter ...... as the "telegraph poles" were converted to lattice masts for cell phone antennas, thus giving the extra height needed to see the right transmitter,
NL
Ne1L C
Its a mess. Transmitters have never respected either regional boundaries or national sensitivities. An admittedly subjective viewpoint here but my region of Yorkshire isn't just Yorkshire. Its Lincolnshire, North Midlands and NW Norfolk. With no disrespect intended I can't see how anyone in say Kings Lynn can have any affinity with anyone in say Leeds.

Likewise I'm sure that the good people of Worksop or Chesterfield have nothing in common with the residents of Lincoln or Hull. Yet due to the power of the transmitters we know have this mishmash. Until or unless Digital terrestrial is abolished and we all watch our local news through either satellite or streaming its going to be the same.
MA
Markymark
Its a mess. Transmitters have never respected either regional boundaries or national sensitivities. An admittedly subjective viewpoint here but my region of Yorkshire isn't just Yorkshire. Its Lincolnshire, North Midlands and NW Norfolk. With no disrespect intended I can't see how anyone in say Kings Lynn can have any affinity with anyone in say Leeds.

Likewise I'm sure that the good people of Worksop or Chesterfield have nothing in common with the residents of Lincoln or Hull. Yet due to the power of the transmitters we know have this mishmash. Until or unless Digital terrestrial is abolished and we all watch our local news through either satellite or streaming its going to be the same.


As has been said before, the siting of transmitters is a throw back to the 1950s when the only requirement was to cover as much of the UK, from as few as possible sites. Both BBC and ITV networks evolved from that position
NL
Ne1L C
Its a mess. Transmitters have never respected either regional boundaries or national sensitivities. An admittedly subjective viewpoint here but my region of Yorkshire isn't just Yorkshire. Its Lincolnshire, North Midlands and NW Norfolk. With no disrespect intended I can't see how anyone in say Kings Lynn can have any affinity with anyone in say Leeds.

Likewise I'm sure that the good people of Worksop or Chesterfield have nothing in common with the residents of Lincoln or Hull. Yet due to the power of the transmitters we know have this mishmash. Until or unless Digital terrestrial is abolished and we all watch our local news through either satellite or streaming its going to be the same.


As has been said before, the siting of transmitters is a throw back to the 1950s when the only requirement was to cover as much of the UK, from as few as possible sites. Both BBC and ITV networks evolved from that position


I agree with you on that. But technology has come on leaps and bounds as has increased awareness of local and national differences which the BBC to their credit has acknowledged with BBC Scotland
NL
Ne1L C
I'm sure every county would love to have a dedicated BBC bulletin and I believe its possible but until or unless digital terrestrial television ends and everyone starts watching though satellite or streaming it won't happen.


It's been achieved in Canada where cable is the main distribution outlet for tv. For example if you live in Barrie, which is 68 miles north of Toronto, the PSB CBC Toronto station covers Barrie, but the commercial provider CTV has a channel for Barrie, complete with a local news bulletin. (A similar distance from London to Hastings, where the latter has a different local news bulletin on BBC One and ITV rather than a London bulletin)

IPTV I believe is the best way of resolving these regional issues, where already iPlayer viewers who don't have satellite or cable to choose which BBC region is their default, so they get the correct news at minimal cost.

I'd like ITV to provide something similar on ITV Hub, where currently it's not easy to watch a whole ITV regional bulletin unless you live in a couple of regions that upload their bulletins to the news website.


An excellent post and a very effective way of providing more localised news.
MA
Markymark
Its a mess. Transmitters have never respected either regional boundaries or national sensitivities. An admittedly subjective viewpoint here but my region of Yorkshire isn't just Yorkshire. Its Lincolnshire, North Midlands and NW Norfolk. With no disrespect intended I can't see how anyone in say Kings Lynn can have any affinity with anyone in say Leeds.

Likewise I'm sure that the good people of Worksop or Chesterfield have nothing in common with the residents of Lincoln or Hull. Yet due to the power of the transmitters we know have this mishmash. Until or unless Digital terrestrial is abolished and we all watch our local news through either satellite or streaming its going to be the same.


As has been said before, the siting of transmitters is a throw back to the 1950s when the only requirement was to cover as much of the UK, from as few as possible sites. Both BBC and ITV networks evolved from that position


I agree with you on that. But technology has come on leaps and bounds as has increased awareness of local and national differences which the BBC to their credit has acknowledged with BBC Scotland


Indeed, but radio waves haven't changed their behaviour, and worse still, try building a 1000ft TV mast somewhere else today ?
In the 50s landowners etc would fall over themselves to host such a thing, such was the pride to be gained by having a TV mast !
NL
Ne1L C
Compare and contrast with Channel Television who hit a early snag when they couldn't find anyone who would lease the land for their transmitter.
MA
Markymark
Compare and contrast with Channel Television who hit a early snag when they couldn't find anyone who would lease the land for their transmitter.


TV trivia time. The mast at Fremont started life in 1956 at Lichfield as ATV/ABC's Ch 8 transmitter
London Lite, TedJrr and Ne1L C gave kudos
NL
Ne1L C
Compare and contrast with Channel Television who hit a early snag when they couldn't find anyone who would lease the land for their transmitter.


TV trivia time. The mast at Fremont started life in 1956 at Lichfield as ATV/ABC's Ch 8 transmitter


Which is a story in itself:
https://www.transdiffusion.org/2020/07/10/a-clarification

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