The One Show with Adrian Chiles and Nadia Sawalha

I certainly didn't highlight a lack of editorial competence as a reason for a lack of Scottish Six. My main reason was the unnecessary duplication of services already provided. I can understand that Scottish viewers may not wish to hear about legal and parliamentary stories related solely to England and Wales. However, I don't think having to sit through - let's say - one such story a day could justify the significant additional expense of duplicating the presentation and reporting of identical stories to those covered on the "English" Six.

It would be a massive expenditure to cover a relatively minor inconvenience that would be better alleviated by considering other more sensible options like two distinct Scottish regions or Local TV, which would solve additional problems at the same time, such as the lack of truly nationwide reporting for all of Scotland.

However, as you say, this is perhaps not the best thread in which to discuss this.

Hi there LDN...well that is your opinion.
I just do not happen to share this.
Your arguements and reasoning do not really make me doubt my previous comments.

I of course respect your opinion. However, my previous post was mainly highlighting the fact that you had misrepresented what I said. I made no comments on BBC Scotland's editorial competence, and so it is inaccurate to say that that was the thrust of my argument.

My comments were about duplication of services, not editorial competence, and whether or not you choose to acknowledge that fact is irrelevant. My point is that I respect your opinions and your right to disagree with anything that I say - but to disagree with me on points that I have not made is a complete nonsense.

And as I already pointed out, the issue of how best to cover Scottish news is already being investigated by the BBC, but material developments are unlikely until the Local TV trial has been completed and analysed. That's why we have trials like this - to find out what will work. Not everything gets to the trial stage though, simply because sometimes it's clear to see what will and will not work even when it's scribbled on the back of an envelope.

The Local TV trial was deemed worthy of a trial, and the reasons for it are obvious to even the least intelligent of minds. The Nationwide trial is also an obvious candidate for a trial - it could lead to a new way to deliver regional news, or it could even lead to a new approach to the Six news hour. On paper, there is nothing particularly appealing about the Scottish Six, other than that it raises a glass to Scottish national pride in having their own national/international news programme. However, it only solves one very insignificant problem, and ends up creating a load of new ones such as having to devote additional resources to potentially a FOURTH simultaneous bulletin with an international flavour (in addition to the "English" Six, N24 if for any reason it is not simulcasting the Six, and a BBC World bulletin at 1800), as well as costing a load of extra cash.

The one problem it solves is far outweighed by the number of problems it creates, and the significant amount of money, time and other resources required to start it up, and ensure that it's a success and not an embarrassment. If you can't see that, then that's a shame, and I respect your opinions, but there seem to be plenty more facts to support my opinions than to support yours.

However, my point - which is a fact and not an opinion - stands; that is, that I did not make any assertions against BBC Scotland editorial competence. My reasons were centred around the very obvious duplication of services (FOUR international-flavoured bulletins at the same time!!), not around any kind of dig at the abilities of Scottish staff.

Hi there LDN...thanks for your latest post.
None of the above really makes me think that a Scottish edited Six would be a catastrophy!
In 2004, a study found that seven out of ten Scots want a Scottish edited main evening bulletin. This follows BBC chairman Michael Grade finally acknowledging what is to ‘most Scots’ a glaring imbalance in the BBC coverage. Any Scots programme would not intended to be purely about Scottish news; far less is it to be about Scottish news being broadcast throughout the rest of the UK. The intention is to produce an hour-long news programme on international, UK-wide and Scottish news within Scotland. The stories will be based on their relative importance to Scotland. It is something that is managed perfectly well by BBC Radio Scotland in their news programmes for many years. Why should television not be able to produce similar programmes? Off course it will cost money, but with the investment in programming and new digital facilities across the UK, why deprive Scots licence payers what they actually want? This set up may cause some inconveniences to the production and technical side of the BBC, but at present Scots get sod all news for their licence. One of my original points; the downgrading of Scottish TV and Grampian TV’s news output would wet the appetite for a more comprehensive Scottish programme. If ‘most Scots’ want a Scottish Six..do we seriously tell them no way? Anyway I doubt that will change any opinions, just as the other argument does not change mine.

Hello again LDN..just before I go off to the land of nod, I want to make one point VERY clear. I would NEVER misrepresent..perhaps misinterpret..NEVER misrepresent what you said. I find that rather offensive..whatever our difference of opinion. I do respect your viewpoint, as I am sure you do mine!

Many of your points seem to already agree with what I've already said, yet you defiantly state them as though they are yours alone.

I have clearly acknowledged that a Scottish Six would not be purely about Scottish news. I have made that point very clear when stating that it would have an international flavour, and that it would be extremely similar to the English Six. Indeed, I expect it would be practically identical to the English Six, with the exception that any issues uniquely relevant to England and Wales would be replaced with issues solely represting Scottish interests.

How can you not see the obvious duplication of services there?

English Six = UK + international news, including perhaps one story each day solely relevant to England and Wales

Scottish Six = UK + international, including one or two stories directly relevant to Scotland alone

What is the point of producing two near-identical bulletins that differ solely on 2-3 minutes of airtime. That, I'm afraid, is very poor value for money. Issues of sole Scottish interest should be presented in Reporting Scotland. There is no sense in replicating an existing bulletin with Scottish accents when it only differs on a fractional level, particularly when there may be a further three BBC News television outlets also requiring the same resources concurrently (on the English Six, the BBC World 1800GMT/BST bulletin, and potentially also on News 24, if for any reason the simulcast was not going ahead on any given day).

The comparison with BBC Radio Scotland is spurious, not least because the costs associated with radio are far lower than those associated with television production. Additionally Radio Scotland doesn't have to compete with three other BBC channels for the same guests at the same time, in addition to having to compete with commercial channels for the same guests!

While there are clear issues about even reportage in Scotland, the most vociferous arguments for a Scottish Six seem to be those calling for a symbolic icon to stand in the schedules, so that Scots can be proud to have their own international news bulletin.

I have yet to hear any convincing arguments however as to why that would actually be a genuinely good idea, other than as a placating gesture towards Scottish nationalism.

Perhaps it's time for Michael Grade - seemingly the champion of the cause - to look into devolving BBC Scotland entirely. Then it can fund itself and do whatever the hell it likes without having to worry about all those terrible London evils like practicality, accountability and money.


.......................

Anyway, Anne and I rather hijacked the thread there - sorry about that.

I don't really think the people of Scotland actually want a Scottish Six, despite the rantings and ravings of the Daily Tabloids in Scotland.

As LDN has said, there would be far too much duplication of effort and cost, and the current simulcasting on the News at Ten on N24 highlights perfectly that there will be ocassions when the Scottish version of the Six would be ditched in favour of centrally broadcast Breaking News stories, which would be silly to run in duplicate or even triplicate (Network, N24 and Glasgow trying to host all at the same time???).

I am quite excited about the Nationwide idea though. It could just work out. Hand in hand with a revamp of the Ten Oclock, and it could be a winner.

One thing I can't stand is hearing people saying 'I don't think people want a Scottish six'. Apathy is a terrible thing but it exists in most people where TV is involved. If you simply walk up to Joe Bloggs and say 'Do you want the TV news from Glasgow or London?' unless he's from Glasgow, he'll probably say London. If you, on the other hand, ask 'Do you want your evening news to have a Scottish perspective, be a little bit longer and ignore the stories that frankly don't have anything to do with your life he may give you a different answer.
Someone has made the point that there will be fewer LIVES and two-ways if a Scottish six. Well that's tosh as N24 continues at 6pm to do LIVES and two-ways while the 6 O'Clock News is on-air. Also, two-ways and LIVES aren't actually that important. They're an Americanism and a gimmick. People are interested in news that's important and relevant to them. Given a choice between a properly produced package on the day in Iraq and how it's affecting Scottish troops out there or a LIVE two way with a reporter talking to Miss Come Dancing Kaplinsky I know what I would opt for.

Imagine for a moment that a Scottish Six was in place today, and Norman Kember was to agree to a single live TV interview with the BBC at Six O'Clock this evening, who do you think would get it?

I lived in England for twenty years honey.
I should say that my name is Chris...since we are getting on so well, please use my first name. You are right..my thoughts are certainly shared by many. All you soles concerned over calls for a Scottish Six make me laugh..do any of you live in Scotland? If not, I cannot see what difference it makes to you in the first place!! What would you personally have to loose?
I have lived in both England and now back in Scotland. Your comments hold as much weight as mine..but ultimately if Scots want this then they should have to take the pros with the cons!! They have done so in many other respects.
Norman Kember can be interviewed by whoever he wants..that would be a job for the Scottish editors to handle. They may use clips of his interview. Your comments just go to show that Scots are feed up with others telling them what they do and don't want and need.
Have a cracking weekend

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Knew I'd forgotten one.

"Be normal. Be normal. Oh, I'm sorry. He's just written Pythagoras' theorem on the floor."

Anne MacKenzie Fan, every single one of your responses to BBC LDN demonstrate that you completely misunderstand and miss-the-point of everything that BBC LDN is saying!

Yet, the kind of language and explaination you use in your own posts shows that you are very intelligent, articulate (etc). It is therefore completely inexplicable as to how you are misunderstanding him.

It makes no sense!