The Newsroom

Nationwide

(May 2013)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
MA
Markymark
Very interesting programme about Nationwide on Radio 4 this morning,
contains some surprisingly quite technical details about the graphics and titles,

Worth a listen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s7t3r
DE
deejay
Hilarious tales of early cock ups! "We are now going to meet Britain's biggest boozer" at which point we cut to a shot of the Chief Constable of Essex...
Really is an excellent listen.
DE
deejay
Here's an interesting video of behind the scenes on Nationwide from a regional point of view in 1981. We see Manchester rehearsing an item into a classic Nationwide 'round the regions' sequence of "Great British Eccentrics. The video was recorded from the engineering snoop feed, so you can see what the vision mixer has cut up, and occasionally what the engineer wants to see instead. It's got Manchester production talkback on it, but you can also hear Nigel, the Nationwide studio director in Lime Grove Studio E. It's a good demonstration of how some of the regions only got to London via a larger production centre. So in this example, London can only see Leeds when Manchester cut them up. Manchester are trying to rehearse their studio insert while London attempt to contact Leeds (without much luck).
The sequence goes:
Manchester - with Tom Shufflebotham, the World Worm Charming Champion.
Southampton - with the World Broom Balancing Champion
Leeds - with certifiable lunatic Wilf Lunn and his Seagull Scarer invention.

Sue Lawley interviews all three down the line in turn. Other interesting things to watch and listen out for are the London director calling out 'Overlay' when it's the back of Sue Lawley's head plus a keyed inset of the contributing region (this refers to a Colour Separation Overlay I suspect: the set would have had a blue rectangle for the inset) and 'Riley' which was a caption generator used by the BBC before Astons became commonplace.

SP
Steve in Pudsey
Would I be right in thinking that on occasions when Manchester didn't have a contribution but Leeds did Manchester Comms would feed them directly to London rather than through the studio gallery? Would that mean that Leeds would have to genlock to Manchester on some occasions and to Studio E on others?
DE
deejay
I imagine that would be the case, but don't know. I think there was a 'national genlock' known as NATLOCK for this very purpose by this time, which I believe used telephone lines to synchronise all contributing regions to the national studio. I think it may have only been the vision/sound that went through major centres on its way to London.
Incidentally, routing anomalies like this survived well into the 2000s: Cardiff remained routed through Bristol right until the circuits were replaced with the current arrangements. Bookings are much simpler now (though in most cases still not point-to-point, unless it's a dedicated circuit like Caversham to Southampton).
In the old days, OBs went through Links vehicles, so there'd be several microwave link hops from a racecourse to a regional centre, which would then get routed on to TC to Presentation.

Even in recent years, with newsroom cameras in even the smallest local radio stations, some routes were rather tortuous, some still going through the few remaining microwave links, circuits to regional centres, then Television Centre then out to wherever you were. You could (often did) have to phone all the centres involved to chase the booking through...
NG
noggin Founding member
I imagine that would be the case, but don't know. I think there was a 'national genlock' known as NATLOCK for this very purpose by this time, which I believe used telephone lines to synchronise all contributing regions to the national studio. I think it may have only been the vision/sound that went through major centres on its way to London.
Incidentally, routing anomalies like this survived well into the 2000s: Cardiff remained routed through Bristol right until the circuits were replaced with the current arrangements. Bookings are much simpler now (though in most cases still not point-to-point, unless it's a dedicated circuit like Caversham to Southampton).


It depends whether the source and destination are on RAMAN doesn't it? If both are then it's a simple booking and you don't need to know the routing - just that it will happen.

It's the legacy, non-RAMAN, circuits that are still point-to-point and require intermediate locations to be in the chain in some cases.

Pre-RAMAN I remember that the Luton newsroom camera was microwave to Sandy Heath, microwave from Sandy Heath - via a midpoint on Addenbrookes Roof (?) - to BBC Cambridge (using the FRV receiver - itself which shared a circuit with BBC One dirty from Norwich to Cambridge), fibre from BBC Cambridge to BBC Norwich, fibre from BBC Norwich to TVC.

Most of the switches (and I think the FRV receiver direction) could be remotely controlled from Norwich ISTR - but it was still quite a route to set-up.
Quote:

In the old days, OBs went through Links vehicles, so there'd be several microwave link hops from a racecourse to a regional centre, which would then get routed on to TC to Presentation.

Even in recent years, with newsroom cameras in even the smallest local radio stations, some routes were rather tortuous, some still going through the few remaining microwave links, circuits to regional centres, then Television Centre then out to wherever you were. You could (often did) have to phone all the centres involved to chase the booking through...


Microwave links are still in use, even for HD programmes. There is certainly HD digital microwave kit at Crystal Palace (which allows a higher bit rate, and lower delay than satellite) - or kit has been rigged in the past.

Most of the News microwave circuits are still analogue and PAL though - and sometimes looking a bit miserable these days...
IS
Inspector Sands
Pre-RAMAN I remember that the Luton newsroom camera was microwave to Sandy Heath, microwave from Sandy Heath - via a midpoint on Addenbrookes Roof (?) - to BBC Cambridge (using the FRV receiver - itself which shared a circuit with BBC One dirty from Norwich to Cambridge), fibre from BBC Cambridge to BBC Norwich, fibre from BBC Norwich to TVC.

Most of the switches (and I think the FRV receiver direction) could be remotely controlled from Norwich ISTR - but it was still quite a route to set-up.

Yep I remember having to book/set up lines from the various BBC offices around there and it always seemed a bit Heath Robinson. IIRC they had to turn round the dish on Sandy Heath to switch between them, so there were various restrictions about when you could get a line from certain places as it was the Cambridge opt. There was a similar odd arrangements for the south of the region like Chelmsford and Ipswich.

I'm sure it's all changed now but another oddity was Guildford - that used the microwave link at Crystal Palace. Therefore the DTL studio couldn't be used if there was a links vehicle using it.... probably why I don't think I've ever seen it on air
MA
Markymark

Most of the News microwave circuits are still analogue and PAL though - and sometimes looking a bit miserable these days...


And some of the fixed link links are BT CCTV grade circuits. SIN 479 ?

Caversham to So'ton and Brighton to So'ton I believe ?

They look bloody awful

http://www.sinet.bt.com/479v1p1.pdf
NG
noggin Founding member
Pre-RAMAN I remember that the Luton newsroom camera was microwave to Sandy Heath, microwave from Sandy Heath - via a midpoint on Addenbrookes Roof (?) - to BBC Cambridge (using the FRV receiver - itself which shared a circuit with BBC One dirty from Norwich to Cambridge), fibre from BBC Cambridge to BBC Norwich, fibre from BBC Norwich to TVC.

Most of the switches (and I think the FRV receiver direction) could be remotely controlled from Norwich ISTR - but it was still quite a route to set-up.

Yep I remember having to book/set up lines from the various BBC offices around there and it always seemed a bit Heath Robinson. IIRC they had to turn round the dish on Sandy Heath to switch between them, so there were various restrictions about when you could get a line from certain places as it was the Cambridge opt.


Yes - the FRV receiver dish was also used for Luton and Bedford I think - so if the FRV was doing something elsewhere in the patch you had to have the dish moved to point in the right direction to receive the Luton or Bedford microwave transmitters, and couldn't do a live with them at the same time as the FRV was operating in that part of the patch.

The microwave circuit from Sandy to Cambridge (with the Addenbrooke's mid-point) was used for both the analogue "BBC One Norwich - aka Networkish" feed from Sandy to BBC Cambridge AND the FRV receiver, so you couldn't use the FRV, Luton or Bedford (and any other studios that came via Sandy) during the Cambridge sub-opt (or either side of it). ISTR that you needed about 10" to remotely switch the receiver, then genlock Cambridge, and then soft-opt... So a presenter at the FRV couldn't hand directly to the sub-opt.


Quote:

There was a similar odd arrangements for the south of the region like Chelmsford and Ipswich.


Yep - think they worked into Sudbury in a similar manner?
WO
Worzel
Was the original One Show idea supposed to be an updated version of Nationwide? I always got that kind of vibe.
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
Was the original One Show idea supposed to be an updated version of Nationwide? I always got that kind of vibe.


My arse you did. It was loosely referred to as that on here by Noggin or someone else old enough to remember; and even then it's really not like it at all. You can't have any idea what Nationwide was like - there's not even enough clips online to cobble together a whole programme.

Tosh.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
To be fair it's been referred to as such elsewhere too, eg http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/sep/06/broadcasting.bbc

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