RJ
I don't think there is any doubt about the demand for local news. And that, for instance, to lump the current Border TV area with Tyne Tees would be a disaster for viewers beyond North East England. But there is a bigger issue. Viewers in Southern Scotland have, since 1961, been treated as a minority in their own country, missing out on programmes of wider Scottish interest because of being "served" by Border TV. Even today, with the ability to split transmissions, viewers of Border Scotland have to wait until midnight on Tuesdays to see a rugby highlights programme the rest of Scotland can view at 6 pm on Sunday. The area in which I live is served by Lothian and Borders Police (HQ Edinburgh), and Lothian and Borders Fire and Rescue Service (ditto). I live in a country with its own laws, health service, education system, church etc. But I get "local" news from Carlisle. The best solution would be to give viewers in Southern Scotland STV, but stipulate that a south of Scotland news opt is mandatory. Even without that, getting STV would be better than an ITV service to all intents and purposes from Newcastle. Because, there's no doubt, no "Border News" = no Border TV. The station is dead.
SO
I agree and can't understand why politicans are fighting to save Border TV - it is a station in name only these days. As you also say, they're not seeing the broader picture in that viewers in South Scotland are missing out on programmes seen elsewhere in the country.
RJG posted:
I don't think there is any doubt about the demand for local news. And that, for instance, to lump the current Border TV area with Tyne Tees would be a disaster for viewers beyond North East England. But there is a bigger issue. Viewers in Southern Scotland have, since 1961, been treated as a minority in their own country, missing out on programmes of wider Scottish interest because of being "served" by Border TV. Even today, with the ability to split transmissions, viewers of Border Scotland have to wait until midnight on Tuesdays to see a rugby highlights programme the rest of Scotland can view at 6 pm on Sunday. The area in which I live is served by Lothian and Borders Police (HQ Edinburgh), and Lothian and Borders Fire and Rescue Service (ditto). I live in a country with its own laws, health service, education system, church etc. But I get "local" news from Carlisle. The best solution would be to give viewers in Southern Scotland STV, but stipulate that a south of Scotland news opt is mandatory. Even without that, getting STV would be better than an ITV service to all intents and purposes from Newcastle. Because, there's no doubt, no "Border News" = no Border TV. The station is dead.
I agree and can't understand why politicans are fighting to save Border TV - it is a station in name only these days. As you also say, they're not seeing the broader picture in that viewers in South Scotland are missing out on programmes seen elsewhere in the country.
TJ
Border has lived on far longer than it might otherwise have because it was a much loved child of the lamented IBA. As for local news, yes today's territory is very different to that of twenty years ago, but if Border had not existed would the Scottish Borders and Dumfries&Galloway had any regional TV if they had depended on the central belt for all their TV services? I've got to say that STV seems barely aware of anything that happens more than 20 mins from the M8 , so just to roll Border Scotland into the Central Scotland licence might not be an adequate solution.
Your idea about requiring STV to operate as Borders as a sub-region seems plausible; if the Cumbria Borders were rolled into TTTV,and ITV's plan for sub-regional inserts went ahead, then possibly there's a case for SMG and ITV sharing resources in this regard? Perhaps not, but in any event it wouldn't be fair to allow SMG to eradicate all aspects of regional news on commercial TV in Scotland.
RJG posted:
........................The best solution would be to give viewers in Southern Scotland STV, but stipulate that a south of Scotland news opt is mandatory. Even without that, getting STV would be better than an ITV service to all intents and purposes from Newcastle...............Border TV. The station is dead.
Border has lived on far longer than it might otherwise have because it was a much loved child of the lamented IBA. As for local news, yes today's territory is very different to that of twenty years ago, but if Border had not existed would the Scottish Borders and Dumfries&Galloway had any regional TV if they had depended on the central belt for all their TV services? I've got to say that STV seems barely aware of anything that happens more than 20 mins from the M8 , so just to roll Border Scotland into the Central Scotland licence might not be an adequate solution.
Your idea about requiring STV to operate as Borders as a sub-region seems plausible; if the Cumbria Borders were rolled into TTTV,and ITV's plan for sub-regional inserts went ahead, then possibly there's a case for SMG and ITV sharing resources in this regard? Perhaps not, but in any event it wouldn't be fair to allow SMG to eradicate all aspects of regional news on commercial TV in Scotland.
RM
I agree and can't understand why politicans are fighting to save Border TV - it is a station in name only these days. As you also say, they're not seeing the broader picture in that viewers in South Scotland are missing out on programmes seen elsewhere in the country.
That's a good point actually; I'd imagine MPs are doing it for a bit of self-publicity, when they they know deep-down they're on a hiding to nothing. MPs didn't stop Central South from disappearing for instance.
Steven O posted:
RJG posted:
I don't think there is any doubt about the demand for local news. And that, for instance, to lump the current Border TV area with Tyne Tees would be a disaster for viewers beyond North East England. But there is a bigger issue. Viewers in Southern Scotland have, since 1961, been treated as a minority in their own country, missing out on programmes of wider Scottish interest because of being "served" by Border TV. Even today, with the ability to split transmissions, viewers of Border Scotland have to wait until midnight on Tuesdays to see a rugby highlights programme the rest of Scotland can view at 6 pm on Sunday. The area in which I live is served by Lothian and Borders Police (HQ Edinburgh), and Lothian and Borders Fire and Rescue Service (ditto). I live in a country with its own laws, health service, education system, church etc. But I get "local" news from Carlisle. The best solution would be to give viewers in Southern Scotland STV, but stipulate that a south of Scotland news opt is mandatory. Even without that, getting STV would be better than an ITV service to all intents and purposes from Newcastle. Because, there's no doubt, no "Border News" = no Border TV. The station is dead.
I agree and can't understand why politicans are fighting to save Border TV - it is a station in name only these days. As you also say, they're not seeing the broader picture in that viewers in South Scotland are missing out on programmes seen elsewhere in the country.
That's a good point actually; I'd imagine MPs are doing it for a bit of self-publicity, when they they know deep-down they're on a hiding to nothing. MPs didn't stop Central South from disappearing for instance.
SO
I agree and can't understand why politicans are fighting to save Border TV - it is a station in name only these days. As you also say, they're not seeing the broader picture in that viewers in South Scotland are missing out on programmes seen elsewhere in the country.
That's a good point actually; I'd imagine MPs are doing it for a bit of self-publicity, when they they know deep-down they're on a hiding to nothing. MPs didn't stop Central South from disappearing for instance.
I wonder if they're half-expecting to nip along to Harraby (where the Border TV studios are) in Carlisle to see Derek Batey making another episode of Mr & Mrs for the network. If so, then they are likely to be very disappointed.
Roger Mellie posted:
Steven O posted:
RJG posted:
I don't think there is any doubt about the demand for local news. And that, for instance, to lump the current Border TV area with Tyne Tees would be a disaster for viewers beyond North East England. But there is a bigger issue. Viewers in Southern Scotland have, since 1961, been treated as a minority in their own country, missing out on programmes of wider Scottish interest because of being "served" by Border TV. Even today, with the ability to split transmissions, viewers of Border Scotland have to wait until midnight on Tuesdays to see a rugby highlights programme the rest of Scotland can view at 6 pm on Sunday. The area in which I live is served by Lothian and Borders Police (HQ Edinburgh), and Lothian and Borders Fire and Rescue Service (ditto). I live in a country with its own laws, health service, education system, church etc. But I get "local" news from Carlisle. The best solution would be to give viewers in Southern Scotland STV, but stipulate that a south of Scotland news opt is mandatory. Even without that, getting STV would be better than an ITV service to all intents and purposes from Newcastle. Because, there's no doubt, no "Border News" = no Border TV. The station is dead.
I agree and can't understand why politicans are fighting to save Border TV - it is a station in name only these days. As you also say, they're not seeing the broader picture in that viewers in South Scotland are missing out on programmes seen elsewhere in the country.
That's a good point actually; I'd imagine MPs are doing it for a bit of self-publicity, when they they know deep-down they're on a hiding to nothing. MPs didn't stop Central South from disappearing for instance.
I wonder if they're half-expecting to nip along to Harraby (where the Border TV studios are) in Carlisle to see Derek Batey making another episode of Mr & Mrs for the network. If so, then they are likely to be very disappointed.
SO
Border has lived on far longer than it might otherwise have because it was a much loved child of the lamented IBA.
Very true. As has been mentioned elswhere in this thread, a number of the South Lakes relays were changed over from Granada to Border at the start of the 1982 franchise round; apparently this was at Border's request, as they had hinted that they might not reapply for their licence unless their transmission area was enlarged.
TedJrr posted:
RJG posted:
........................The best solution would be to give viewers in Southern Scotland STV, but stipulate that a south of Scotland news opt is mandatory. Even without that, getting STV would be better than an ITV service to all intents and purposes from Newcastle...............Border TV. The station is dead.
Border has lived on far longer than it might otherwise have because it was a much loved child of the lamented IBA.
Very true. As has been mentioned elswhere in this thread, a number of the South Lakes relays were changed over from Granada to Border at the start of the 1982 franchise round; apparently this was at Border's request, as they had hinted that they might not reapply for their licence unless their transmission area was enlarged.
NE
I'm not a Cumbrian or a Manx or a Scot but it's always struck me that Border was never entirely sure of it's identity. I'm not trying to offend anyone but a company that straddles the border and takes in the Isle Of Man as well seems disjointed.
With Yorkshire and Scottish you knew where the channel was broadcasting from and to (And yes i know Yorkshire does broadcast further afield).
Border is different. I think maybe a closer link with SMG, Tyne Tees or Granada with a legal requirement to transmit a local opt-out may be the best thing.
With Yorkshire and Scottish you knew where the channel was broadcasting from and to (And yes i know Yorkshire does broadcast further afield).
Border is different. I think maybe a closer link with SMG, Tyne Tees or Granada with a legal requirement to transmit a local opt-out may be the best thing.
:-(
A former member
Border's lack of identity *was* its identity though.
Any of the three areas would have been far too small to be viable on their own, and subsumed into STV, Granada/TTTV and possibly UTV was never going to be a good thing for viewers.
Border certainly wasn't perfect, but would Whitehaven viewers really want to have the same regional news as Stoke On Trent? Or Douglas with Derry, or, worst of all perhaps, Stranraer with Dundee.
At least by covering three small "scraps" the company was able to concentrate on them all. It may not have always done this successfully, but at least it tried its best. Granada? Don't make me laugh.
Any of the three areas would have been far too small to be viable on their own, and subsumed into STV, Granada/TTTV and possibly UTV was never going to be a good thing for viewers.
Border certainly wasn't perfect, but would Whitehaven viewers really want to have the same regional news as Stoke On Trent? Or Douglas with Derry, or, worst of all perhaps, Stranraer with Dundee.
At least by covering three small "scraps" the company was able to concentrate on them all. It may not have always done this successfully, but at least it tried its best. Granada? Don't make me laugh.
JO
That will not happen.
Ofcom have confirmed that any alteration to the area covered by STV Glasgow would require a new licence to be advertised. In effect STV Glasgow would lose its current right to broadcast, and have to bid for the new licence, with no guarantee of winning.
My preferred option would be for Broadcasting to be devolved to the Scottish Government. Two new licences would be advertised for Scotland, (the old Grampian and Scottish / part Border) with the proviso that the same contractor cannot bid for both areas.
p_c_u_k posted:
It should be a condition of any lessening of regional programming that ITV PLC must hand over Border Scotland to STV. And I mean hand over, as SMG would be very unlikely to actually buy it
That will not happen.
Ofcom have confirmed that any alteration to the area covered by STV Glasgow would require a new licence to be advertised. In effect STV Glasgow would lose its current right to broadcast, and have to bid for the new licence, with no guarantee of winning.
My preferred option would be for Broadcasting to be devolved to the Scottish Government. Two new licences would be advertised for Scotland, (the old Grampian and Scottish / part Border) with the proviso that the same contractor cannot bid for both areas.
SO
That will not happen.
Ofcom have confirmed that any alteration to the area covered by STV Glasgow would require a new licence to be advertised. In effect STV Glasgow would lose its current right to broadcast, and have to bid for the new licence, with no guarantee of winning.
My preferred option would be for Broadcasting to be devolved to the Scottish Government. Two new licences would be advertised for Scotland, (the old Grampian and Scottish / part Border) with the proviso that the same contractor cannot bid for both areas.
So, in effect, OFCOM are perfectly happy for South Scotland to have its local news service provided from Gateshead and for the area to lose out yet again on Scottish-interest programmes.
I'd rather have Border saved, if this is to be the case.
john04 posted:
p_c_u_k posted:
It should be a condition of any lessening of regional programming that ITV PLC must hand over Border Scotland to STV. And I mean hand over, as SMG would be very unlikely to actually buy it
That will not happen.
Ofcom have confirmed that any alteration to the area covered by STV Glasgow would require a new licence to be advertised. In effect STV Glasgow would lose its current right to broadcast, and have to bid for the new licence, with no guarantee of winning.
My preferred option would be for Broadcasting to be devolved to the Scottish Government. Two new licences would be advertised for Scotland, (the old Grampian and Scottish / part Border) with the proviso that the same contractor cannot bid for both areas.
So, in effect, OFCOM are perfectly happy for South Scotland to have its local news service provided from Gateshead and for the area to lose out yet again on Scottish-interest programmes.
I'd rather have Border saved, if this is to be the case.
ST
That will not happen.
Ofcom have confirmed that any alteration to the area covered by STV Glasgow would require a new licence to be advertised. In effect STV Glasgow would lose its current right to broadcast, and have to bid for the new licence, with no guarantee of winning.
My preferred option would be for Broadcasting to be devolved to the Scottish Government. Two new licences would be advertised for Scotland, (the old Grampian and Scottish / part Border) with the proviso that the same contractor cannot bid for both areas.
So, in effect, OFCOM are perfectly happy for South Scotland to have its local news service provided from Gateshead and for the area to lose out yet again on Scottish-interest programmes.
I'd rather have Border saved, if this is to be the case.
Oh dear, I would have thought having a Gateshead based programme would be far worse than a Glasgow based one?
Sadly, I really doubt that Grade would backtrack on merging regions now...but it is the season for miracles and all that
I really wonder if the BBC may go down a similar route with their news and current affairs cost cutting measures?
Where will it all end - I dread to think
Steven O posted:
john04 posted:
p_c_u_k posted:
It should be a condition of any lessening of regional programming that ITV PLC must hand over Border Scotland to STV. And I mean hand over, as SMG would be very unlikely to actually buy it
That will not happen.
Ofcom have confirmed that any alteration to the area covered by STV Glasgow would require a new licence to be advertised. In effect STV Glasgow would lose its current right to broadcast, and have to bid for the new licence, with no guarantee of winning.
My preferred option would be for Broadcasting to be devolved to the Scottish Government. Two new licences would be advertised for Scotland, (the old Grampian and Scottish / part Border) with the proviso that the same contractor cannot bid for both areas.
So, in effect, OFCOM are perfectly happy for South Scotland to have its local news service provided from Gateshead and for the area to lose out yet again on Scottish-interest programmes.
I'd rather have Border saved, if this is to be the case.
Oh dear, I would have thought having a Gateshead based programme would be far worse than a Glasgow based one?
Sadly, I really doubt that Grade would backtrack on merging regions now...but it is the season for miracles and all that
I really wonder if the BBC may go down a similar route with their news and current affairs cost cutting measures?
Where will it all end - I dread to think