The Newsroom

ITV wants to axe some regional news services

From 17 to 9 (September 2007)

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SO
Steven O
RJG posted:
I notice local politicians are already on their hobby horses calling for Border TV to be saved.


It's worth noting that the news is the only thing to come from Carlisle these days. All other studios at Border's HQ are now locked up out of use, along with equipment, and the camera used for Lookaround and the news is controlled by Leeds.

Therefore, if they manage to get Border saved, it will only be the news service that will survive, and not the once-proud station which gave us Mr & Mrs.
JE
Jez Founding member
If they merged the West and Westcountry programmes what would happen to 4 sub regions that Westcountry have? Would they have addtional sub regions for Bristol within the new larger region?
RM
Roger Mellie
Jez posted:
If they merged the West and Westcountry programmes what would happen to 4 sub regions that Westcountry have? Would they have addtional sub regions for Bristol within the new larger region?


At a guess, it will be one news programme with opt-outs for the Westcountry sub-regions plus the former West region; as with Meridian and Central?
JE
Jez Founding member
Roger Mellie posted:
Jez posted:
If they merged the West and Westcountry programmes what would happen to 4 sub regions that Westcountry have? Would they have addtional sub regions for Bristol within the new larger region?


At a guess, it will be one news programme with opt-outs for the Westcountry sub-regions plus the former West region; as with Meridian and Central?


Right. So Central and Meridian will also have opt outs? But Yorkshire wont?
HA
harshy Founding member
Steven O posted:
RJG posted:
I notice local politicians are already on their hobby horses calling for Border TV to be saved.


It's worth noting that the news is the only thing to come from Carlisle these days. All other studios at Border's HQ are now locked up out of use, along with equipment, and the camera used for Lookaround and the news is controlled by Leeds.

Therefore, if they manage to get Border saved, it will only be the news service that will survive, and not the once-proud station which gave us Mr & Mrs.


Why would the cameras be controlled from a million miles away from Carlisle, they are not that skingy surely!
NH
Nick Harvey Founding member
Steven O posted:
Merging Border and Tyne Tees will only work IF the Scottish part of Border's area is given to STV.

There is quite a bit of a technical problem with splitting Border between an English and a Scottish service, which most of you appear to be totally ignoring.

Border currently broadcasts from two main transmitters and a bunch of relays.

Okay, the relays can be re-allocated based on the country they currently serve.

The main transmitters, however, are far more of a problem. Caldbeck mainly serves England, but also goes into quite a large chunk of Scotland. Selkirk mainly serves Scotland, but also goes into quite a large chunk of England.

Unless you do a "Ridge Hill" on both Caldbeck and Selkirk and transmit two versions of ITV from each of them, the problem you're all talking about isn't, technically, able to be solved.

The BBC already have to transmit two versions of BBC One and Two from the Caldbeck/Sandale pair. This system would have to be duplicated for ITV, and also done at at Selkirk, in order to produce the split that many of you are proposing.
NG
noggin Founding member
Jez posted:
Roger Mellie posted:
Jez posted:
If they merged the West and Westcountry programmes what would happen to 4 sub regions that Westcountry have? Would they have addtional sub regions for Bristol within the new larger region?


At a guess, it will be one news programme with opt-outs for the Westcountry sub-regions plus the former West region; as with Meridian and Central?


Right. So Central and Meridian will also have opt outs? But Yorkshire wont?


I think the suggestion/guess is that Meridian, Central and Westcountry WILL have a single pan-regional show for each region, and MAY have a short-ish sub-opt during this show for SOME sub-regions. However this sub-opt material may well be pre-recorded not live. (And could come from the same studios with the same presenters in each patch for that matter)

I'm not saying it WILL be pre-recorded, nor am I saying it will be presented by the same people, just that it could be. (And that might be the cheapest way of doing it).

What seems - again a guess - to be clear is that the current full sub-regions days are numbered, especially where they are currently serviced by split newsrooms, or studios on different sites. (Anglia may be an odd-one out here, as they've always had a single newsroom operation for both halves of their region, based in Norwich, with two studios next to each other. AIUI Meridian have recently moved to have three studios next to each other, but have sizeable newsroom operations off-site)

Whether this is good news or not for the BBC Regional operations - who knows. At the moment they are all presented from studios within their transmission areas, with newsrooms in their transmission areas (Cambridge, Oxford and Jersey sub-opts are all "in-region") - whether ITVs changes mean the BBC can also rationalise to save money, who knows? I suspect they will use this as an argument that they are still putting public service first - but it could equally be used as an argument to reduce any further sub-opt exercises, or regional expansions (c.f. the rumoured shelving of the move of the BBC Cambridge operation to Milton Keynes)
SO
Steven O
Nick Harvey posted:
Steven O posted:
Merging Border and Tyne Tees will only work IF the Scottish part of Border's area is given to STV.

There is quite a bit of a technical problem with splitting Border between an English and a Scottish service, which most of you appear to be totally ignoring.

Border currently broadcasts from two main transmitters and a bunch of relays.

Okay, the relays can be re-allocated based on the country they currently serve.

The main transmitters, however, are far more of a problem. Caldbeck mainly serves England, but also goes into quite a large chunk of Scotland. Selkirk mainly serves Scotland, but also goes into quite a large chunk of England.

Unless you do a "Ridge Hill" on both Caldbeck and Selkirk and transmit two versions of ITV from each of them, the problem you're all talking about isn't, technically, able to be solved.

The BBC already have to transmit two versions of BBC One and Two from the Caldbeck/Sandale pair. This system would have to be duplicated for ITV, and also done at at Selkirk, in order to produce the split that many of you are proposing.


Caldbeck has two ITV signals, one for the English part of Border and the other for the Scottish part. Selkirk AFAIK only takes the Scottish signals. The relays in SW Scotland which are fed from Caldbeck also take the Border Scotland service.
SO
Steven O
harshy posted:
Steven O posted:
RJG posted:
I notice local politicians are already on their hobby horses calling for Border TV to be saved.


It's worth noting that the news is the only thing to come from Carlisle these days. All other studios at Border's HQ are now locked up out of use, along with equipment, and the camera used for Lookaround and the news is controlled by Leeds.

Therefore, if they manage to get Border saved, it will only be the news service that will survive, and not the once-proud station which gave us Mr & Mrs.


Why would the cameras be controlled from a million miles away from Carlisle, they are not that skingy surely!


The studios at Eastern Way have been progressively run-down in the last few years with most equipment locked away out of use. What's left is run by remote control from Leeds.

I know that Border have been mocked in the past for their cash problems, but suggesting that they can't even afford their own cameras is stretching it a bit!! Laughing
MA
Markymark
Steven O posted:

Caldbeck has two ITV signals, one for the English part of Border and the other for the Scottish part. Selkirk AFAIK only takes the Scottish signals. The relays in SW Scotland which are fed from Caldbeck also take the Border Scotland service.


Spot on.

Also after DSO Caldbeck will transmit nine DTT muxes, three English PSBs, three Scottish PSBs, and the three UK wide COMs

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/tech/dsodetails/border.pdf
CR
City Road
Steven O posted:
No mention has been made yet of what will happen to southern Scotland if Border goes. My feeling is that it will become part of the Tyne Tees region and present an even absurder scenario (with the South of Scotland expected to receive its local news from Gateshead) than is currently the case. Admittedly, Tyne Tees' signal does reach into parts of Berwickshire, but it's not officially part of their coverage area.

Merging Border and Tyne Tees will only work IF the Scottish part of Border's area is given to STV - otherwise, it would be just as well to leave things as they currently are.


Berwick is an official coverage area of Tyne Tees, they took over from Border late last year.
SO
Steven O
Three Rivers Fantasy posted:
Steven O posted:
No mention has been made yet of what will happen to southern Scotland if Border goes. My feeling is that it will become part of the Tyne Tees region and present an even absurder scenario (with the South of Scotland expected to receive its local news from Gateshead) than is currently the case. Admittedly, Tyne Tees' signal does reach into parts of Berwickshire, but it's not officially part of their coverage area.

Merging Border and Tyne Tees will only work IF the Scottish part of Border's area is given to STV - otherwise, it would be just as well to leave things as they currently are.


Berwick is an official coverage area of Tyne Tees, they took over from Border late last year.



Correct regarding Berwick. However, its county, Berwickshire, is in Scotland and so is officially in Border territory, though really it's an overlap area since the Duns and Coldstream areas can also receive Tyne Tees from the Chatton transmitter.

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