For most, I don't think ITN or ITV are any different. The majority of my family (parents, relatives etc.) actually refer to ITV News as the ITN News. As 'the news on itv is ITN' if you like- regardless of what they called it.
A name really isn't everything - had the structure and timings of ITV bulletins remained the same before March 1999, with only the name changing to "ITV News", I'm pretty sure the viewing figures and public perception wouldn't have been hit as hard as they have. The study Brekkie linked to indicates that ITV News hasn't had its reputation hurt that badly, but the BBC still manages to attract 5-6m viewers regularly, ITV considerably less at around 2-3m. In the past the gap was much narrower, and for a time during the '80s and '90s ITN news on ITV used to rate higher than BBC. I'm pretty sure it's not just down to the changes in bulletin timings...
The BBC claiming the 10pm slot was a real game changer though - ITV had traditionally been strong at 9pm so that hurt the ratings for the Nine o'clock News and boosted them for News at Ten. I agree though the gap is far bigger than it should be and certainly seems to be getting bigger. ITV News can still get a decent audience at 10pm if it has a strong inheritence but the BBC get a decent audience regardless of how BBC1 rates in the 9pm hour.
Thanks for that Brekkie - very interesting indeed.
I do have to point out that I didn't completely mean the shift from "ITN" to "ITV News" lowered the reputation of the news service in the eyes of the public... rather I meant that the numerous issues ITV News has been through over the last decade and a bit (NAT fiasco, regional cutbacks, apparent changes in editorial direction etc) are the things that have hit the service the most. The thing is that it coincides almost exactly with the change of the brand name in 1999. I do remember reading about ITV News journalists unhappy with plans to reduce the amount of political/serious coverage and increase the amount of "populist" stories - this was around 2001/2002 or so. Anyone know which article I'm talking about?? I can't for the life of me remember which paper it was from.
A name really isn't everything - had the structure and timings of ITV bulletins remained the same before March 1999, with only the name changing to "ITV News", I'm pretty sure the viewing figures and public perception wouldn't have been hit as hard as they have. The study Brekkie linked to indicates that ITV News hasn't had its reputation hurt that badly, but the BBC still manages to attract 5-6m viewers regularly, ITV considerably less at around 2-3m. In the past the gap was much narrower, and for a time during the '80s and '90s ITN news on ITV used to rate higher than BBC. I'm pretty sure it's not just down to the changes in bulletin timings...
ITV News at 6.30 gets around 4m viewers in comparison to BBC News' 5m at 6pm. That's the only time where it is very close, but often overlooked. It may be due to the timings and regional news more than anything, but definitely worth noting.
If BBC and ITV show the same thing at the same time (even if not a direct simulcast such as the news or Daybreak/BBC Breakfast etc), people automatically go to the BBC because of the perception that they're better at it. When ITV News at Ten is pushed back for TV events such as BGT, the news on ITV tends to do well, just like when BBC News vacates its slot at weekends and bank holidays, and ITV News does well. The obvious thing for ITV to do in that situation would be to move the news out of its 10pm slot for it to perform better, but they previously had difficulty filling that slot, so by having the news on at 10pm they're ticking two boxes in one go.
I don't know whether I'd agree with 1999 as the turning point editorially. I think that was just the final nail in the coffin. From what I remember of the mid-90s, news on ITV was starting to become rather sensationalist and tabloid. There was a marked shift from the ITN bulletins of the 80s to those of the mid-90s. Personally, I'd pinpoint 1995, if not 1992, as the beginning of the change of policy. It may not have been fully realised until after 1999, but I'd say the seeds of change were there earlier.
I think we're all blinded by the Big Ben titles of the 1995 rebrand to actually pass judgement. I'd actually say it was later rather than earlier than 1999 - more around 2000/2001 when they were trying everything to prove people were still watching the news on ITV. Even ignoring timings and length the News at Ten bulletins of 2001 were very different to those of 1999.
I do think they had a good period from around 2004 in the era of the 10.30pm bulletin but later in the decade things began going downhill and it still hasn't really recovered.
You're right about the period after 2004 being better overall. The presentation introduced in February of that year was clean, modern and unfussy and I thought ITV News was a decent product until the 2009 rebrand. I'd say the News at Ten era after 2008 was equally as good as the years immediately before; for me the second turning point came in November 2009. I stopped watching ITV News regularly in 2010 and only dip in and out now. It has gone back to the editorial style it employed in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Gaz, if like me you enjoyed the 2004-06 look, then I'd urge you to keep an eye on my YouTube channel over the next few days. I'm just in the process of transferring from DVD the full week's worth of Evening News bulletins from September 2005 when past presenters came back to present as a celebration of ITN's 50th birthday. It'll take me a while to upload each one as my upstream speed is pretty bad, but I'm aiming to complete them as soon as I can.
Gaz, if like me you enjoyed the 2004-06 look, then I'd urge you to keep an eye on my YouTube channel over the next few days. I'm just in the process of transferring from DVD the full week's worth of Evening News bulletins from September 2005 when past presenters came back to present as a celebration of ITN's 50th birthday. It'll take me a while to upload each one as my upstream speed is pretty bad, but I'm aiming to complete them as soon as I can.
Now that would be something special to watch! Yeah I was very much of a fan of the 2004 - 2006 era, and when they updated it, it kind of lost its edge.
Yes I agree; I didn't like it presentationally between 2006-08 as much as I did 2004-06. I was never a fan of the atrium backdrop they had; I always thought the simple blue background was much more effective. Also the theme music lost its edge after it was remixed in 2006. It had a simplicity about it in 2004 but became too percussive later on.
A caveat though: I hated what they did to the Lunchtime News in 2005. That lighter backdrop was awful and don't even get me started on the Pulse segment. That was car crash TV of the highest order.
I really liked the 2004 look too, I don't understand why it gets so much stick. I don't think it would work today because it was very much a product of its time but at the time it was very modern, futuristic and even revolutionary. I've always liked bigger sets, the Sky News one too, it just adds a bit of scale to it. I didn't mind the standing presentation either and the titles were brilliant- I really liked the globe that was broken into cubes. It was all very tabloid, but at the same time it managed to have a little bit of authority.
The atrium background was OK but it was very busy too. It looked terrible in teal, much better when they reverted to blue.
I really liked the 2004 look too, I don't understand why it gets so much stick. I don't think it would work today because it was very much a product of its time but at the time it was very modern, futuristic and even revolutionary. I've always liked bigger sets, the Sky News one too, it just adds a bit of scale to it. I didn't mind the standing presentation either and the titles were brilliant- I really liked the globe that was broken into cubes. It was all very tabloid, but at the same time it managed to have a little bit of authority.
The atrium background was OK but it was very busy too. It looked terrible in teal, much better when they reverted to blue.
If they were to kind of bring that back but bring it bang up to date for this rebrand that's going to be happening, instead of having nearly 99.9% virtual stuff that they seem to have gotten into..