The Newsroom

Does Newswatch = Points of View?

The latest BBC sexism row (October 2019)

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BR
Brekkie
It is worth saying we don't know the details and there may be other aspects which form part of this. On the other hand too it's worth noting the tribunal system is so skewed in the claimants favour that the claim basically isn't investigated until it gets to the tribunal stage.

Precedent is also a factor in the law in this country, even when that precedent may not be based on common sense.
NE
Newsroom
The whole case is ridiculous and the fact she went on with it says a lot about her.


Why is that Ginnyfan? Was Carrie Gracie ridiculous? is George Alagiah ridiculous for supporting equal pay and many other 'names' at the BBC.


Carrie Gracie's claim was a lot more realistic and justified. She was part of a team of international editors working within the same division of the BBC. It was quite right to draw the distinction between the various amounts being paid according to gender, as to all intents and purposes, they were doing the same job with a different locational focus.

However, Samira Ahmed's case is without justification in my opinion. She is trying to draw a distinction between two completely different roles on completely different networks and within two different divisions of the BBC. The only parallel is that both programmes feature viewers' feedback. Aside from that, everything else is different so how she can claim she is being paid unfairly when she is/was paid the same as her predecessor on Newswatch is the bit that is baffling to some people. She isn't doing the same work as Jeremy Vine and that seems to be forming the crux of the BBC's defence.

Anyone would think some of this forum were born in the 60's.

I don't see what age has to do with anything.


I give up for being threatened with a 3rd warning in one year. Whoopee me!
SP
Steve in Pudsey
It's interesting that the BBC are using the argument that Newswatch is little more than a cheap programme to fill up the schedules, that's exactly what PoV was invented to be, to fill up the rest of an hour after a US import had the ad breaks taken out.

The Guardian article mentions an interesting quote from Ahmed's submission to the tribunal

Quote:
“It is likely that Jeremy Vine spends less time in make-up than I do. Women are more likely to be criticised for their appearance on air.”


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/30/bbc-mounts-defence-in-samira-ahmed-equal-pay-case

I'll be interested to see what the tribunal makes of that point.
JW
JamesWorldNews
Brekkie’s first sentence in his post, above, is probably the most relevant at the moment.

I shall untwist my knickers until such times that some actual facts become available.
CW
Charlie Wells Moderator
It's interesting that the BBC are using the argument that Newswatch is little more than a cheap programme to fill up the schedules, that's exactly what PoV was invented to be, to fill up the rest of an hour after a US import had the ad breaks taken out.

If I recall correctly it was set up in the aftermath of the Hutton report.

If the case goes in favour of Samira I imagine the ramifications could be significant, no just limited to the BBC. For example could BBC radio presenters theoretically demand to be paid the same as another radio presenter who hosts a programme of similar length on a different BBC radio station?
JW
JamesWorldNews
It's interesting that the BBC are using the argument that Newswatch is little more than a cheap programme to fill up the schedules, that's exactly what PoV was invented to be, to fill up the rest of an hour after a US import had the ad breaks taken out.

If I recall correctly it was set up in the aftermath of the Hutton report.

If the case goes in favour of Samira I imagine the ramifications could be significant, no just limited to the BBC. For example could BBC radio presenters theoretically demand to be paid the same as another radio presenter who hosts a programme of similar length on a different BBC radio station?


In wider industry, that’s why organizations have grading structures, compensation and benefit policies and quartiles of pay which are applied across the entire organization regardless of race, gender, etc etc. And in most industries, exceptions are genuinely exceptions. Why should broadcast media operate differently? (Not a question to you, Charlie. Just a general point I’m making whilst, of course, I recognize this issue has huge ramifications far and wide across the corporation and they probably don’t know how to fix it! Without impacting hugely in the financial sense, the solution is probably a blended solution of pay cuts and pay increases and those who don’t like it would have to move on, so to speak........)
NE
Newsroom
This provides more insight into the issue too. And as to who asked why she had to air her case in public should read this from top to bottom.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/01/bbc-equal-pay-samira-ahmed-women-men
MA
Markymark
It's interesting that the BBC are using the argument that Newswatch is little more than a cheap programme to fill up the schedules, that's exactly what PoV was invented to be, to fill up the rest of an hour after a US import had the ad breaks taken out.

If I recall correctly it was set up in the aftermath of the Hutton report.

If the case goes in favour of Samira I imagine the ramifications could be significant, no just limited to the BBC. For example could BBC radio presenters theoretically demand to be paid the same as another radio presenter who hosts a programme of similar length on a different BBC radio station?


In wider industry, that’s why organizations have grading structures, compensation and benefit policies and quartiles of pay which are applied across the entire organization regardless of race, gender, etc etc. And in most industries, exceptions are genuinely exceptions. Why should broadcast media operate differently? (Not a question to you, Charlie. Just a general point I’m making whilst, of course, I recognize this issue has huge ramifications far and wide across the corporation and they probably don’t know how to fix it! Without impacting hugely in the financial sense, the solution is probably a blended solution of pay cuts and pay increases and those who don’t like it would have to move on, so to speak........)


Performance/presentation industries don't abide in any way to the conventional workplace and business culture and etiquette. It's a simple as that. Gerry Robinson discovered that 30 years ago when he landed at Granada's broadcasting division, and tried to run it like a conventional business.

It's not just broadcasting, I've known presenters (not publicly known ones etc) at company events to be hired with a fee of a grand or two for a day's work, when quite honestly there were plenty of internal people who could have, (and would have) done the same thing for 'nothing'.
BR
Brekkie

Performance/presentation industries don't abide in any way to the conventional workplace and business culture and etiquette. It's a simple as that.

The question is whether legally they should.
MA
Markymark

Performance/presentation industries don't abide in any way to the conventional workplace and business culture and etiquette. It's a simple as that.

The question is whether legally they should.


Oh, I don't disagree, painful times ahead perhaps !

It's arguably a form of 'market forces' !
JW
JamesWorldNews

Performance/presentation industries don't abide in any way to the conventional workplace and business culture and etiquette. It's a simple as that.

The question is whether legally they should.


Oh, I don't disagree, painful times ahead perhaps !

It's arguably a form of 'market forces' !


Yes. I think you’re right, Mark. There will be painful times ahead. There isn’t really any other solution to a problem that is decades old.
BB
bbpro
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but surely another factor is the budget for the programmes and which pot of funding the programme falls under.

I’m pretty sure that Points Of View is made by BBC Studios so will have their own overall spending budget whereas Newswatch is a BBC News production so falls under a completely different budget.

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