The Newsroom

Does Newswatch = Points of View?

The latest BBC sexism row (October 2019)

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WO
Worzel
itsrobert posted:
Surely a more sensible comparison would be with Raymond Snoddy, Samira Ahmed's predecessor on Newswatch? If he was being paid more, then there's an issue. Other than that, I don't think any other comparison can be drawn.


From the article...

Quote:
"Samira was paid the same as her male predecessor when she began presenting Newswatch. Gender has not been a factor in levels of pay for Points of View. News and entertainment are very different markets and pay across the media industry reflects this."


I take it Raymond Snoddy might have a case too? So its not the case of a gender pay gap, more a status pay gap?
IT
itsrobert Founding member
Well in that case, there is no case. If Samira Ahmed is being paid the same (or at least started off on the same pay) as Raymond Snoddy, then there is no claim to be made. Comparing different programmes on different networks is ridiculous.
BM
BM11
I haven't seen either for a while but doesn't Newswatch feature more probing interviews with BBC Management than Points of view
MA
Markymark
BM11 posted:
I haven't seen either for a while but doesn't Newswatch feature more probing interviews with BBC Management than Points of view


Both programmes are a waste of time in my opinion. PoV just turns complaints into entertainment fodder, NW arrogantly dismisses complaints with the ' we know what we're doing, you're just a pleb that knows nothing about the production process attitude.

When someone (rarely) makes (what I consider) a really valid and sensible compliant, it's just presented on NW as a rhetoric missive.

The best programme was C4's Right to Reply in its first incarnation.
Brekkie and itsrobert gave kudos
JO
Jon
This is getting ridiculous now. Points of View is targeted at a mainstream audience and warranted in the view of the BBC at the time, a bigger name who the audience is more familiar with, that’s why he got paid more not because he is a man.

If this case is successful it’s going to get to the point where talent and appeal to the viewers can’t be rewarded.
JO
Jon
BM11 posted:
I haven't seen either for a while but doesn't Newswatch feature more probing interviews with BBC Management than Points of view

It’s irrelevant, because that’s clearly not what the pay is based on and nor should it be.
IT
itsrobert Founding member
Jon posted:
This is getting ridiculous now. Points of View is targeted at a mainstream audience and warranted in the view of the BBC at the time, a bigger name who the audience is more familiar with, that’s why he got paid more not because he is a man.

If this case is successful it’s going to get to the point where talent and appeal to the viewers can’t be rewarded.

Indeed, if I recall correctly, Jeremy Vine's predecessor on POV was Sir Terry Wogan and you couldn't get a bigger BBC name at the time. And before Terry Wogan it was Anne Robinson. If Samira Ahmed thinks she's in the same league then she's very much mistaken. Newswatch began in 2004 and was presented by a relative unknown in Raymond Snoddy. He's not exactly a household name, even now. How Samira Ahmed can compare the two programmes is beyond me. I'm all for people being paid equally for the same job but we're seeing time and time again that it's just not that clear-cut in the media world.
JO
Jonwo
itsrobert posted:
Jon posted:
This is getting ridiculous now. Points of View is targeted at a mainstream audience and warranted in the view of the BBC at the time, a bigger name who the audience is more familiar with, that’s why he got paid more not because he is a man.

If this case is successful it’s going to get to the point where talent and appeal to the viewers can’t be rewarded.

Indeed, if I recall correctly, Jeremy Vine's predecessor on POV was Sir Terry Wogan and you couldn't get a bigger BBC name at the time. And before Terry Wogan it was Anne Robinson. If Samira Ahmed thinks she's in the same league then she's very much mistaken. Newswatch began in 2004 and was presented by a relative unknown in Raymond Snoddy. He's not exactly a household name, even now. How Samira Ahmed can compare the two programmes is beyond me. I'm all for people being paid equally for the same job but we're seeing time and time again that it's just not that clear-cut in the media world.


I wouldn't be surprised if the BBC use that in their defence.
WO
Worzel
itsrobert posted:
Jon posted:
This is getting ridiculous now. Points of View is targeted at a mainstream audience and warranted in the view of the BBC at the time, a bigger name who the audience is more familiar with, that’s why he got paid more not because he is a man.

If this case is successful it’s going to get to the point where talent and appeal to the viewers can’t be rewarded.

Indeed, if I recall correctly, Jeremy Vine's predecessor on POV was Sir Terry Wogan and you couldn't get a bigger BBC name at the time. And before Terry Wogan it was Anne Robinson. If Samira Ahmed thinks she's in the same league then she's very much mistaken. Newswatch began in 2004 and was presented by a relative unknown in Raymond Snoddy. He's not exactly a household name, even now. How Samira Ahmed can compare the two programmes is beyond me. I'm all for people being paid equally for the same job but we're seeing time and time again that it's just not that clear-cut in the media world.


Remember we're talking about the same Samira Ahmed who thought she was in the same league as Dimbleby to be the next host Question Time.


I'm sure she's a nice person and a hard worker, but she does come across a bit above her station sometimes as if she thinks she's a household name!

Carrie Gracie has also waded in on Twitter.

I have nothing against people being paid the same salary for the same job. But where's it going to end? If this is upheld, its going to cause more harm than good for genuine pay dispute cases. What's next? A regional news presenter expecting the same salary as Huw Edwards or Fiona Bruce because they're technically reading the news on the same channel?
Last edited by Worzel on 30 October 2019 11:34pm - 5 times in total
BR
Brekkie
For the record I think she is more than worthy of consideration for Question Time but appealing on Twitter comes across as lacking a bit of class, though I suspect it was out of frustration after being rejected through the official channels.
TR
trance
Very interesting reporting in the Guardian of the BBC's arguments about the difference between the two programmes:

Quote:
In response, the BBC has taken the unusual decision to play down the reach of its own output, saying its rolling news channel is a “relatively niche” service that airs little-watched programmes. It also said the only reason the corporation repeated the Newswatch programme on BBC One on a Saturday morning was to “fill out the programme at the weekend”, suggesting it was only watched because viewers had already turned on their TV in the hope of seeing BBC Breakfast.

The BBC’s initial evidence at the tribunal claimed the two viewer feedback programmes were different shows for different audiences, which justified the different salaries paid to their presenters. The corporation claims Points of View is an entertainment show which has always attracted high-paid, high-profile presenters who have the skills to deal with a topic in a “light-hearted way”. By contrast, Newswatch is a “serious programme, which deals with matters seriously”, presented by a news journalist, which means it has always commanded a much lower salary.


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/30/bbc-mounts-defence-in-samira-ahmed-equal-pay-case
NE
Newsroom
The BBC do not utilise Samira at all. I have no idea why she stays there. She's consistently ignored for roles. She's incredibly talented, has an outstanding background yet the BBC do nothing with her.

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