SP
One I heard on some gallery footage was "down... and up", which I think referred to a mix through black
BA
That's indeed what it would have been - sounds like talkback from NC1 or NC2 from some time ago - "down... and up" was a phrase once much used by BBC Pres Directors - in the long-gone days when they had a Pres Ops Assistant doing the vision and sound mixing for them. Fades to black themselves have also rather gone out of fashion in presentation these days - they prefer to keep things a bit pacier with cuts or mixes.
Steve in Pudsey posted:
One I heard on some gallery footage was "down... and up", which I think referred to a mix through black
That's indeed what it would have been - sounds like talkback from NC1 or NC2 from some time ago - "down... and up" was a phrase once much used by BBC Pres Directors - in the long-gone days when they had a Pres Ops Assistant doing the vision and sound mixing for them. Fades to black themselves have also rather gone out of fashion in presentation these days - they prefer to keep things a bit pacier with cuts or mixes.
NG
Yep - "down and up" was a fade to black and back up again. Often used for regional opts in the days before opt-out points had to be cuts only (because of the way the DTT opting is triggered).
There were also "fade and takes" which was a fade to black followed by a cut to the next source (rather than a fade back up)
noggin
Founding member
Steve in Pudsey posted:
One I heard on some gallery footage was "down... and up", which I think referred to a mix through black
Yep - "down and up" was a fade to black and back up again. Often used for regional opts in the days before opt-out points had to be cuts only (because of the way the DTT opting is triggered).
There were also "fade and takes" which was a fade to black followed by a cut to the next source (rather than a fade back up)
NG
That's indeed what it would have been - sounds like talkback from NC1 or NC2 from some time ago - "down... and up" was a phrase once much used by BBC Pres Directors - in the long-gone days when they had a Pres Ops Assistant doing the vision and sound mixing for them. Fades to black themselves have also rather gone out of fashion in presentation these days - they prefer to keep things a bit pacier with cuts or mixes.
Also often heard in regional news galleries at the opt-out and opt-back point - as it was a very safe way of getting in and out of network (Especially as most opt-junctions were designed to allow this - often including a down and up or a fade and take at the opt-point)
Probably one reason that the GVG200 mixer was so popular in BBC regional galleries in the late 80s and 90s - as it had MIX, WIPE, and PST via BLACK as transition types. The latter faded from the PGM source to black on the first fader transiton, and then faded from black to the PST source on the second transition. A lot easier than having to mix to black and then quickly change sources!
noggin
Founding member
Bacchic posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
One I heard on some gallery footage was "down... and up", which I think referred to a mix through black
That's indeed what it would have been - sounds like talkback from NC1 or NC2 from some time ago - "down... and up" was a phrase once much used by BBC Pres Directors - in the long-gone days when they had a Pres Ops Assistant doing the vision and sound mixing for them. Fades to black themselves have also rather gone out of fashion in presentation these days - they prefer to keep things a bit pacier with cuts or mixes.
Also often heard in regional news galleries at the opt-out and opt-back point - as it was a very safe way of getting in and out of network (Especially as most opt-junctions were designed to allow this - often including a down and up or a fade and take at the opt-point)
Probably one reason that the GVG200 mixer was so popular in BBC regional galleries in the late 80s and 90s - as it had MIX, WIPE, and PST via BLACK as transition types. The latter faded from the PGM source to black on the first fader transiton, and then faded from black to the PST source on the second transition. A lot easier than having to mix to black and then quickly change sources!
TE
There were also "fade and takes" which was a fade to black followed by a cut to the next source (rather than a fade back up)
Yes RTÉ Pres still do this all the time, and whilst I like it, it is undoubtedly laziness on their part - it just 'covers' everything nicely without having to go to the effort of a sharp cut, despite it often working better in some instances.
And the fading was only recently introduced since Pres finally got their house in order last year. Previously the cuts to live sources within the Television Centre (with the exception of the Newsroom) were just ghastly - notably to the Late Late Show which just beggared belief with nasty coloured lines and noise zig-zagging across the screen, and a burst of crude audio interference to boot - this went on for years !, and not just with the Late Late.
Now all idents fade to black, and pending on the speed of the director the subsequent cut will happen almost instantly or anything up to about a second later.
noggin posted:
There were also "fade and takes" which was a fade to black followed by a cut to the next source (rather than a fade back up)
Yes RTÉ Pres still do this all the time, and whilst I like it, it is undoubtedly laziness on their part - it just 'covers' everything nicely without having to go to the effort of a sharp cut, despite it often working better in some instances.
And the fading was only recently introduced since Pres finally got their house in order last year. Previously the cuts to live sources within the Television Centre (with the exception of the Newsroom) were just ghastly - notably to the Late Late Show which just beggared belief with nasty coloured lines and noise zig-zagging across the screen, and a burst of crude audio interference to boot - this went on for years !, and not just with the Late Late.
Now all idents fade to black, and pending on the speed of the director the subsequent cut will happen almost instantly or anything up to about a second later.
NG
There were also "fade and takes" which was a fade to black followed by a cut to the next source (rather than a fade back up)
Yes RTÉ Pres still do this all the time, and whilst I like it, it is undoubtedly laziness on their part - it just 'covers' everything nicely without having to go to the effort of a sharp cut, despite it often working better in some instances.
And the fading was only recently introduced since Pres finally got their house in order last year. Previously the cuts to live sources within the Television Centre (with the exception of the Newsroom) were just ghastly - notably to the Late Late Show which just beggared belief with nasty coloured lines and noise zig-zagging across the screen, and a burst of crude audio interference to boot - this went on for years !, and not just with the Late Late.
Now all idents fade to black, and pending on the speed of the director the subsequent cut will happen almost instantly or anything up to about a second later.
These days the BBC Network transitions are, AIUI, entirely pre-programmed from a schedule, and controlled from the automation system rather than manually by a director. The director can alter the schedule, and trigger manual events, but the actual transitions etc. happen under computer rather than human control I believe.
noggin
Founding member
Telefís posted:
noggin posted:
There were also "fade and takes" which was a fade to black followed by a cut to the next source (rather than a fade back up)
Yes RTÉ Pres still do this all the time, and whilst I like it, it is undoubtedly laziness on their part - it just 'covers' everything nicely without having to go to the effort of a sharp cut, despite it often working better in some instances.
And the fading was only recently introduced since Pres finally got their house in order last year. Previously the cuts to live sources within the Television Centre (with the exception of the Newsroom) were just ghastly - notably to the Late Late Show which just beggared belief with nasty coloured lines and noise zig-zagging across the screen, and a burst of crude audio interference to boot - this went on for years !, and not just with the Late Late.
Now all idents fade to black, and pending on the speed of the director the subsequent cut will happen almost instantly or anything up to about a second later.
These days the BBC Network transitions are, AIUI, entirely pre-programmed from a schedule, and controlled from the automation system rather than manually by a director. The director can alter the schedule, and trigger manual events, but the actual transitions etc. happen under computer rather than human control I believe.
SP
load the cassettes onto the server, then make sure you have a breakdown caption handy for when the automation throws a wobbly 
GE
...and make sure nobody accidentally leans on the Emergency Cut button, as appeared to happen last night during Newsnight - the breakdown slide popped up for a few seconds for no good reason.
I think the directors get a chance to preview their junctions in advance, so they get a chance to tweak the transitions. Although it's a little easier for the BBC channels (who get a director each) than, say UKTV, where one person is looking after considerably more channels.
thegeek
Founding member
Steve in Pudsey posted:
load the cassettes onto the server, then make sure you have a breakdown caption handy for when the automation throws a wobbly
I think the directors get a chance to preview their junctions in advance, so they get a chance to tweak the transitions. Although it's a little easier for the BBC channels (who get a director each) than, say UKTV, where one person is looking after considerably more channels.
SP
I think there was a more major cockup during newsnight last night, according to another thread newsnight got routed onto BBC1 for a few seconds at a time
IS
These days the BBC Network transitions are, AIUI, entirely pre-programmed from a schedule, and controlled from the automation system rather than manually by a director. The director can alter the schedule, and trigger manual events, but the actual transitions etc. happen under computer rather than human control I believe.
Yes, for quite some time in fact.
Each item in the schedule has a transition type (cut, V fade, U fade, cross fade etc) and duration (in frames) which then operates the vision mixer
noggin posted:
These days the BBC Network transitions are, AIUI, entirely pre-programmed from a schedule, and controlled from the automation system rather than manually by a director. The director can alter the schedule, and trigger manual events, but the actual transitions etc. happen under computer rather than human control I believe.
Yes, for quite some time in fact.
Each item in the schedule has a transition type (cut, V fade, U fade, cross fade etc) and duration (in frames) which then operates the vision mixer