The Newsroom

BBC World News from New Broadcasting House

14th January 2013 - The Worlds Newsroom (January 2013)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
SN
The SNT Three
Bob Paisley posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Bob Paisley posted:
It's hardly secondary action for presenters on the channel in question to refuse to cross a picket line - and the management won't know who is or isn't a member of a union. It is every person's individual choice whether to withdraw their labour or not. But equally it is every person's individual choice to criticise them or praise them for that decision.


Yes, it's every persons individual choice whether they want to take illegal, unofficial action by refusing to cross a picket line, putting themselves in breach of contract, liable to disciplinary action or jeopardising their chances of future freelance work and their livelihood.

If you're not both working in the area that is on strike and in the relevant union, any action beyond refusing to do work which would otherwise be done by a striking colleague is an extremely bad career move.

Everyone who is in possession of the full facts might be entitied to decide whether they think somebody's choice to cross a picket line is reasonable. Keyboard warriors who seem to think we're still in Scargill's era, not so much.

Edit: of course management know who is a member, subs are paid directly from the salary for most people.


We can agree to disagree on the ethics and effectiveness of industrial action but what you said about management knowing who is a member of a union is just factually wrong. I'm a member of a union but my membership subscription comes out of my bank account after my employee has paid me. It doesn't come directly from them to the union. My employer has no idea what I choose to do with my money once I've been paid. It's none of their business - and it would be extremely sinister if they knew what was going on in my bank account.


Not always the case though. In some workplaces union subscriptions do come directly from the wage packet. So the previous statement wasn't factually wrong - although it may not apply in the case
BP
Bob Paisley
The SNT Three posted:
Bob Paisley posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:

Yes, it's every persons individual choice whether they want to take illegal, unofficial action by refusing to cross a picket line, putting themselves in breach of contract, liable to disciplinary action or jeopardising their chances of future freelance work and their livelihood.

If you're not both working in the area that is on strike and in the relevant union, any action beyond refusing to do work which would otherwise be done by a striking colleague is an extremely bad career move.

Everyone who is in possession of the full facts might be entitied to decide whether they think somebody's choice to cross a picket line is reasonable. Keyboard warriors who seem to think we're still in Scargill's era, not so much.

Edit: of course management know who is a member, subs are paid directly from the salary for most people.


We can agree to disagree on the ethics and effectiveness of industrial action but what you said about management knowing who is a member of a union is just factually wrong. I'm a member of a union but my membership subscription comes out of my bank account after my employee has paid me. It doesn't come directly from them to the union. My employer has no idea what I choose to do with my money once I've been paid. It's none of their business - and it would be extremely sinister if they knew what was going on in my bank account.


Not always the case though. In some workplaces union subscriptions do come directly from the wage packet. So the previous statement wasn't factually wrong - although it may not apply in the case

Fair enough. I'm slightly astonished if that's the case, as I find it a pretty sinister thing. But if it's true, I hold my hands up, I was wrong.

I still think scabbing is wrong though.
MI
Michael
My union offers you a choice of direct debit or pay packet deduction.
CI
cityprod
Bob Paisley posted:
The SNT Three posted:
Bob Paisley posted:

We can agree to disagree on the ethics and effectiveness of industrial action but what you said about management knowing who is a member of a union is just factually wrong. I'm a member of a union but my membership subscription comes out of my bank account after my employee has paid me. It doesn't come directly from them to the union. My employer has no idea what I choose to do with my money once I've been paid. It's none of their business - and it would be extremely sinister if they knew what was going on in my bank account.


Not always the case though. In some workplaces union subscriptions do come directly from the wage packet. So the previous statement wasn't factually wrong - although it may not apply in the case

Fair enough. I'm slightly astonished if that's the case, as I find it a pretty sinister thing. But if it's true, I hold my hands up, I was wrong.

I still think scabbing is wrong though.


It's not scabbing. You're sounding like Arthur Scargill, which ain't good.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
In fact unions are up in arms because new laws were proposed that would outlaw packet deductions of subscriptions. Moving everybody to DD is an admin nightmare and a barrier to new members joining.

Which will be why it was proposed.
DE
deejay
I think those plans have actually been dropped, and so direct pay packet deduction is still an option.
DV
dvboy
While union subscriptions can be deducted from the pay packet, surely alarm bells would start ringing if management suddenly asked payroll for a list of those that had them?
SP
Steve in Pudsey
As there are legal protections for union members taking part in a lawfully organised strike but not for others, finding out whether somebody who failed to report for work on a strike day is a union member is reasonable.
DE
deejay
Managers can (and sometimes do) ask staff members if they're union members, but staff aren't obliged to answer. I don't believe managers have access to full payroll details to find out if they are union members. On a day of industrial action, they do make notes of who hasn't turned up for work so that pay can be deducted accordingly. Once a strike is called, staff cannot apply for leave on that day. I'm not sure what happens if people call in sick - you can self certify as unfit for work for up to 5 days before a doctor's note is needed. But if you're genuinely unwell for work and it happens to be a strike day you might have to prove you were ill in order to keep your day's pay.
RK
Rkolsen
deejay posted:
Managers can (and sometimes do) ask staff members if they're union members, but staff aren't obliged to answer. I don't believe managers have access to full payroll details to find out if they are union members. On a day of industrial action, they do make notes of who hasn't turned up for work so that pay can be deducted accordingly. Once a strike is called, staff cannot apply for leave on that day. I'm not sure what happens if people call in sick - you can self certify as unfit for work for up to 5 days before a doctor's note is needed. But if you're genuinely unwell for work and it happens to be a strike day you might have to prove you were ill in order to keep your day's pay.

If the managers didn't know who is a member of a union how would they be able to calculate things like benefits or pay scales? OR Is that just a US thing.
DE
deejay
That's a US thing I think. Union rules over pay and grading are quite different in the UK and have been for many years. The requirement to be a member of a union to do a certain job (closed shop working) was abolished many years ago.

In the UK, recognised unions often use collective bargaining with employers for payrises on behalf of all staff, regardless of whether they're actually in the union. I believe it's slightly different for freelancers - there are (I think) agreed minimum rates for job roles between the unions and major broadcasters / production companies.
GE
thegeek Founding member
That's right: my old job had union representation and something like 80% membership in the department - but all staff benefited from the union's collective bargaining. On the flipside, they also didn't get to have any input into those negotations.

Newer posts