The Newsroom

BBC World News from New Broadcasting House

14th January 2013 - The Worlds Newsroom (January 2013)

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LL
London Lite Founding member
I wonder if any hotels will use an IPTV delivery system in the future? It's easier to some extent to use a Smart DNS/VPN facility to get a feed of UK television than a 3m dish somewhere on the property.

I use Zattoo Switzerland which has a wide range of FTA channels from the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain (also including BBC WN, CNBC, CNNi etc) which are surely being taken from 28e for the English channels and 19.2e for the Pan-European/German channels.

If all hotel tv's were smart enabled with a wifi or LAN connection with something like Zattoo or TV Player enabled, it could be a lot better than some hotel set-ups.
Last edited by London Lite on 14 September 2015 7:25pm - 2 times in total
SP
Steve in Pudsey
noggin posted:
There are two satellites carrying domestic channels - one FTA with a tight beam (Astra 28.2) and one encrypted with a much wider beam (and used as a backup to fibre feeds to the UK terrestrial transmitter network)


I may be about to show my ignorance, but this backup at 27.5W is confusing me. Wouldn't a terrestrial transmitter would require a pre-multiplexed feed, such as they get from the Coding and Mux centre. According to Lyngsat these feeds are DVB-S2 encoded, rather than DVB-T as would be transmitted from a DTT transmitter. That implies that the satellite mux would have to be decoded and recoded (or at least reassembled) at the TX site, particularly as it looks like there are different versions of BBC One in the nations.

If it were possible to take a DVB-S mux and convert it to DBV-T, surely it would make sense to arrange the Astra 2 multiplexes such that one of them had all of the BBC Freeview SD channels on it so it could be used as a back up?

(Apologies for the thread drift)
DV
dvboy
London Lite posted:
I wonder if any hotels will use an IPTV delivery system in the future? It's easier to some extent to use a Smart DNS/VPN facility to get a feed of UK television than a 3m dish somewhere on the property.

I use Zattoo Switzerland which has a wide range of FTA channels from the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain (also including BBC WN, CNBC, CNNi etc) which are surely being taken from 28e for the English channels and 19.2e for the Pan-European/German channels.

If all hotel tv's were smart enabled with a wifi or LAN connection with something like Zattoo or TV Player enabled, it could be a lot better than some hotel set-ups.


Slightly different but a restaurant/bar I went to in Gran Canaria got all of its Scandinavian channels by IPTV. It was popular for ice hockey and football coverage.
MA
Markymark
Steve in Pudsey posted:
noggin posted:
There are two satellites carrying domestic channels - one FTA with a tight beam (Astra 28.2) and one encrypted with a much wider beam (and used as a backup to fibre feeds to the UK terrestrial transmitter network)


I may be about to show my ignorance, but this backup at 27.5W is confusing me. Wouldn't a terrestrial transmitter would require a pre-multiplexed feed, such as they get from the Coding and Mux centre. According to Lyngsat these feeds are DVB-S2 encoded, rather than DVB-T as would be transmitted from a DTT transmitter. That implies that the satellite mux would have to be decoded and recoded (or at least reassembled) at the TX site, particularly as it looks like there are different versions of BBC One in the nations.


I don't think anything too clever happens at the Tx site to use these feeds. Yes, they are in a DVB-S2 wrapper, but I think once decoded to TS level the PIDS/SIDS etc replicate enough of the 'real' CCM feeds, that the cherry picked services (as you say, appropriate versions of BBC 1 and 2) plus the SI data, are then stuffed into a DVB-T encoder, and the domestic receivers are fooled enough to maintain a basic service that replicates the mux ?

It has to work that way, other wise every viewer would have to perform a rescan. I can't find any info
on the scheme, not surprising of course, because you could use the same idea to form 'pirate' broadcasts.
Steve in Pudsey and harshy gave kudos
HB
HarryB
Screen seems to have packed up on World's OS



NG
noggin Founding member
London Lite posted:
I wonder if any hotels will use an IPTV delivery system in the future? It's easier to some extent to use a Smart DNS/VPN facility to get a feed of UK television than a 3m dish somewhere on the property.

I use Zattoo Switzerland which has a wide range of FTA channels from the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain (also including BBC WN, CNBC, CNNi etc) which are surely being taken from 28e for the English channels and 19.2e for the Pan-European/German channels.

If all hotel tv's were smart enabled with a wifi or LAN connection with something like Zattoo or TV Player enabled, it could be a lot better than some hotel set-ups.


The issue is really what flavour of IPTV you are talking about. A lot of iPlayer, SVT Play etc. live channels are pretty low quality streams designed for web streaming. There are also high quality DVB-type streams of IPTV (as BT TV uses for BT Sport HD and UHD stuff, and as are used for some IP cable systems these days) which would be great - but they are usually multicast from the ISP headend rather than Unicast from servers run by the broadcaster (as iPlayer is)
NG
noggin Founding member
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
noggin posted:
There are two satellites carrying domestic channels - one FTA with a tight beam (Astra 28.2) and one encrypted with a much wider beam (and used as a backup to fibre feeds to the UK terrestrial transmitter network)


I may be about to show my ignorance, but this backup at 27.5W is confusing me. Wouldn't a terrestrial transmitter would require a pre-multiplexed feed, such as they get from the Coding and Mux centre. According to Lyngsat these feeds are DVB-S2 encoded, rather than DVB-T as would be transmitted from a DTT transmitter. That implies that the satellite mux would have to be decoded and recoded (or at least reassembled) at the TX site, particularly as it looks like there are different versions of BBC One in the nations.


I don't think anything too clever happens at the Tx site to use these feeds. Yes, they are in a DVB-S2 wrapper, but I think once decoded to TS level the PIDS/SIDS etc replicate enough of the 'real' CCM feeds, that the cherry picked services (as you say, appropriate versions of BBC 1 and 2) plus the SI data, are then stuffed into a DVB-T encoder, and the domestic receivers are fooled enough to maintain a basic service that replicates the mux ?

It has to work that way, other wise every viewer would have to perform a rescan. I can't find any info
on the scheme, not surprising of course, because you could use the same idea to form 'pirate' broadcasts.


Yep - think the are flagged as data rather than video precisely to allow them to be more "DVB-T/T2" than DVB-S2 video?
LL
London Lite Founding member
noggin posted:
London Lite posted:
I wonder if any hotels will use an IPTV delivery system in the future? It's easier to some extent to use a Smart DNS/VPN facility to get a feed of UK television than a 3m dish somewhere on the property.

I use Zattoo Switzerland which has a wide range of FTA channels from the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain (also including BBC WN, CNBC, CNNi etc) which are surely being taken from 28e for the English channels and 19.2e for the Pan-European/German channels.

If all hotel tv's were smart enabled with a wifi or LAN connection with something like Zattoo or TV Player enabled, it could be a lot better than some hotel set-ups.


The issue is really what flavour of IPTV you are talking about. A lot of iPlayer, SVT Play etc. live channels are pretty low quality streams designed for web streaming. There are also high quality DVB-type streams of IPTV (as BT TV uses for BT Sport HD and UHD stuff, and as are used for some IP cable systems these days) which would be great - but they are usually multicast from the ISP headend rather than Unicast from servers run by the broadcaster (as iPlayer is)


Question is when you're on holiday, should you expect HD from a hotel room set? I doubt it considering most of the time will be spent away from the room/set, so a low quality SD stream should be enough. I expect communal sets which would be used to show Premier League matches and other sports to have HD though.
NG
noggin Founding member
London Lite posted:
noggin posted:
London Lite posted:
I wonder if any hotels will use an IPTV delivery system in the future? It's easier to some extent to use a Smart DNS/VPN facility to get a feed of UK television than a 3m dish somewhere on the property.

I use Zattoo Switzerland which has a wide range of FTA channels from the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain (also including BBC WN, CNBC, CNNi etc) which are surely being taken from 28e for the English channels and 19.2e for the Pan-European/German channels.

If all hotel tv's were smart enabled with a wifi or LAN connection with something like Zattoo or TV Player enabled, it could be a lot better than some hotel set-ups.


The issue is really what flavour of IPTV you are talking about. A lot of iPlayer, SVT Play etc. live channels are pretty low quality streams designed for web streaming. There are also high quality DVB-type streams of IPTV (as BT TV uses for BT Sport HD and UHD stuff, and as are used for some IP cable systems these days) which would be great - but they are usually multicast from the ISP headend rather than Unicast from servers run by the broadcaster (as iPlayer is)


Question is when you're on holiday, should you expect HD from a hotel room set? I doubt it considering most of the time will be spent away from the room/set, so a low quality SD stream should be enough. I expect communal sets which would be used to show Premier League matches and other sports to have HD though.


No - but I'd expect off-air quality SD as if I were watching a normal TV broadcast, with full motion on 50i/50p content (news, sport, entertainment). HD would be a bonus.

My unicast vs multicast point is that unicast is usually the low bitrate streamed stuff (like the iPlayer live channels - which are OK for mobiles but look pants on a proper screen), the multicast DVB stuff is normally off-air quality (and looks the same as Freeview or Freesat).
LL
London Lite Founding member
noggin posted:
London Lite posted:
noggin posted:
London Lite posted:
I wonder if any hotels will use an IPTV delivery system in the future? It's easier to some extent to use a Smart DNS/VPN facility to get a feed of UK television than a 3m dish somewhere on the property.

I use Zattoo Switzerland which has a wide range of FTA channels from the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain (also including BBC WN, CNBC, CNNi etc) which are surely being taken from 28e for the English channels and 19.2e for the Pan-European/German channels.

If all hotel tv's were smart enabled with a wifi or LAN connection with something like Zattoo or TV Player enabled, it could be a lot better than some hotel set-ups.


The issue is really what flavour of IPTV you are talking about. A lot of iPlayer, SVT Play etc. live channels are pretty low quality streams designed for web streaming. There are also high quality DVB-type streams of IPTV (as BT TV uses for BT Sport HD and UHD stuff, and as are used for some IP cable systems these days) which would be great - but they are usually multicast from the ISP headend rather than Unicast from servers run by the broadcaster (as iPlayer is)


Question is when you're on holiday, should you expect HD from a hotel room set? I doubt it considering most of the time will be spent away from the room/set, so a low quality SD stream should be enough. I expect communal sets which would be used to show Premier League matches and other sports to have HD though.


No - but I'd expect off-air quality SD as if I were watching a normal TV broadcast, with full motion on 50i/50p content (news, sport, entertainment). HD would be a bonus.

My unicast vs multicast point is that unicast is usually the low bitrate streamed stuff (like the iPlayer live channels - which are OK for mobiles but look pants on a proper screen), the multicast DVB stuff is normally off-air quality (and looks the same as Freeview or Freesat).


Actually, there are people who watch illegal streams of Sky or the PL feeds which are barely watchable on a mobile, not to mention a desktop with a 1920x1080 resolution. Content rather than quality appears to be king.
NG
noggin Founding member
London Lite posted:
noggin posted:
London Lite posted:
noggin posted:
London Lite posted:
I wonder if any hotels will use an IPTV delivery system in the future? It's easier to some extent to use a Smart DNS/VPN facility to get a feed of UK television than a 3m dish somewhere on the property.

I use Zattoo Switzerland which has a wide range of FTA channels from the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain (also including BBC WN, CNBC, CNNi etc) which are surely being taken from 28e for the English channels and 19.2e for the Pan-European/German channels.

If all hotel tv's were smart enabled with a wifi or LAN connection with something like Zattoo or TV Player enabled, it could be a lot better than some hotel set-ups.


The issue is really what flavour of IPTV you are talking about. A lot of iPlayer, SVT Play etc. live channels are pretty low quality streams designed for web streaming. There are also high quality DVB-type streams of IPTV (as BT TV uses for BT Sport HD and UHD stuff, and as are used for some IP cable systems these days) which would be great - but they are usually multicast from the ISP headend rather than Unicast from servers run by the broadcaster (as iPlayer is)


Question is when you're on holiday, should you expect HD from a hotel room set? I doubt it considering most of the time will be spent away from the room/set, so a low quality SD stream should be enough. I expect communal sets which would be used to show Premier League matches and other sports to have HD though.


No - but I'd expect off-air quality SD as if I were watching a normal TV broadcast, with full motion on 50i/50p content (news, sport, entertainment). HD would be a bonus.

My unicast vs multicast point is that unicast is usually the low bitrate streamed stuff (like the iPlayer live channels - which are OK for mobiles but look pants on a proper screen), the multicast DVB stuff is normally off-air quality (and looks the same as Freeview or Freesat).


Actually, there are people who watch illegal streams of Sky or the PL feeds which are barely watchable on a mobile, not to mention a desktop with a 1920x1080 resolution. Content rather than quality appears to be king.


To some. Who don't want to pay. Then there are people who buy Blurays and UHD TVs and watch 4K Netflix or Amazon. Content is king. Quality is a king maker.
SN
The SNT Three
The red/cream era BBC World breakfiller music lives on!

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