The Newsroom

BBC World News from New Broadcasting House

14th January 2013 - The Worlds Newsroom (January 2013)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
CI
cityprod
Inspector Sands posted:
cityprod posted:
News does not need dynamic presentation. Static cameras are just fine enough for most news programmes. Look at ITV News, 5 News, Sky News, CNN, France 24, RTE News, and a thousand other news programmes. You don't need cameras moving during a shot. Static shots are just fine.

You are correct in that it is possible to do a news bulletin with static shots, but that doesn't mean the cameras don't have to move at all during the bulletin... they can't be 'static cameras'


True, but they don't need to move whilst the shot in on them. They can move whilst a report or video is airing. Too much moving of cameras when they're airing, is hurting them as they can't keep making these kinds of mistakes.
IS
Inspector Sands
Quote:
True, but they don't need to move whilst the shot in on them. They can move whilst a report or video is airing. Too much moving of cameras when they're airing, is hurting them as they can't keep making these kinds of mistakes.

But unless the cameras are locked down and not touched at all, the opportunity for a mistake exists. All the camera movement mistakes I've seen have been during (what have planned to be) static shots
CI
cityprod
Inspector Sands posted:
Quote:
True, but they don't need to move whilst the shot in on them. They can move whilst a report or video is airing. Too much moving of cameras when they're airing, is hurting them as they can't keep making these kinds of mistakes.

But unless the cameras are locked down and not touched at all, the opportunity for a mistake exists. All the camera movement mistakes I've seen have been during (what have planned to be) static shots


Not all of them have been. One evening during an opening of the papers segment, the camera came zooming in to the tight presenter and screen shot rather than the usual slow camera move of the papers opening shot. A single wide shot there would be better, at the final position, rather than the unnecessary slow camera move. These problems are occuring because they are trying to do too much, rather than follow the old KISS adage.
NG
noggin Founding member
Inspector Sands posted:
Quote:
True, but they don't need to move whilst the shot in on them. They can move whilst a report or video is airing. Too much moving of cameras when they're airing, is hurting them as they can't keep making these kinds of mistakes.

But unless the cameras are locked down and not touched at all, the opportunity for a mistake exists. All the camera movement mistakes I've seen have been during (what have planned to be) static shots


There have been both. I've seen some interesting tracking+zooming wides used where the guest or presenter has ended up being almost out of frame...

I think that there is a bit of "keep things moving" going on - probably because until the move to NBH it wasn't possible to do anything more than a crane up or down as an on-shot move (ignoring PTZs)

However - "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". There should always be a reason or motivation for a move, just as there should be for a graphic, music cue etc.

There have also been some pretty nasty combinations of moving cameras and moving screen graphics that have fought each other badly. One thing moving on-screen at any given time is usually enough...
RI
rikiless
Not sure if mentioned here but

BBC World News launches in HD across Middle East on Arabsat 13E from 5th August.

Would like to see some video captures .. Very Happy
DO
dosxuk
cityprod posted:
Inspector Sands posted:
Quote:
True, but they don't need to move whilst the shot in on them. They can move whilst a report or video is airing. Too much moving of cameras when they're airing, is hurting them as they can't keep making these kinds of mistakes.

But unless the cameras are locked down and not touched at all, the opportunity for a mistake exists. All the camera movement mistakes I've seen have been during (what have planned to be) static shots


Not all of them have been. One evening during an opening of the papers segment, the camera came zooming in to the tight presenter and screen shot rather than the usual slow camera move of the papers opening shot. A single wide shot there would be better, at the final position, rather than the unnecessary slow camera move. These problems are occuring because they are trying to do too much, rather than follow the old KISS adage.


But the problems aren't with the actual movements going awry - they're with things being miscued or loaded wrongly, e.g. calling up a camera move which should happen off shot when that camera is actually live, loading a move into the running order which has everything move rather than a single camera, or loading a one person MCU where a two person wide is needed to frame it correctly.

As long as the cameras are controlled by the automation, the risk will exist of loading the wrong shot / move into the system. That's not a failure of the automation / technology - that's a risk of allowing humans to make decisions.
MA
Marcus Founding member
dosxuk posted:
cityprod posted:
Inspector Sands posted:
Quote:
True, but they don't need to move whilst the shot in on them. They can move whilst a report or video is airing. Too much moving of cameras when they're airing, is hurting them as they can't keep making these kinds of mistakes.

But unless the cameras are locked down and not touched at all, the opportunity for a mistake exists. All the camera movement mistakes I've seen have been during (what have planned to be) static shots


Not all of them have been. One evening during an opening of the papers segment, the camera came zooming in to the tight presenter and screen shot rather than the usual slow camera move of the papers opening shot. A single wide shot there would be better, at the final position, rather than the unnecessary slow camera move. These problems are occuring because they are trying to do too much, rather than follow the old KISS adage.


But the problems aren't with the actual movements going awry - they're with things being miscued or loaded wrongly, e.g. calling up a camera move which should happen off shot when that camera is actually live, loading a move into the running order which has everything move rather than a single camera, or loading a one person MCU where a two person wide is needed to frame it correctly.

As long as the cameras are controlled by the automation, the risk will exist of loading the wrong shot / move into the system. That's not a failure of the automation / technology - that's a risk of allowing humans to make decisions.



It's the result of having news that changes. If it was the same each day the automation would work perfectly.
BA
bakamann
rikiless posted:
Not sure if mentioned here but

BBC World News launches in HD across Middle East on Arabsat 13E from 5th August.

Would like to see some video captures .. Very Happy


Finally, maybe they could make use that unused feed in Intelsat...
RE
remlap
rikiless posted:
Not sure if mentioned here but

BBC World News launches in HD across Middle East on Arabsat 13E from 5th August.

Would like to see some video captures .. Very Happy

Arabsat isn't at 13E, they may rent a transponder on Hot Bird mind you?

It's confirmed to be on Arabsat operated Badr 6 at 26E which is no chance in the UK.

bakamann posted:
Finally, maybe they could make use that unused feed in Intelsat...

What would that be? Intelsat operates a number of satellites.
RI
rikiless
remlap posted:

Arabsat isn't at 13E, they may rent a transponder on Hot Bird mind you?

It's confirmed to be on Arabsat operated Badr 6 at 26E which is no chance in the UK.
What would that be? Intelsat operates a number of satellites.


sorry, my mistake

sattelite footprint

http://www.dxsatcs.com/sites/default/files/satellite/26-0east-ku/Badr%206%20at%2026.0%20e%20_%20BSS%20footprint%20_.jpg
JI
JImmy Khan
Marcus posted:
dosxuk posted:
cityprod posted:
Inspector Sands posted:
Quote:
True, but they don't need to move whilst the shot in on them. They can move whilst a report or video is airing. Too much moving of cameras when they're airing, is hurting them as they can't keep making these kinds of mistakes.

But unless the cameras are locked down and not touched at all, the opportunity for a mistake exists. All the camera movement mistakes I've seen have been during (what have planned to be) static shots


Not all of them have been. One evening during an opening of the papers segment, the camera came zooming in to the tight presenter and screen shot rather than the usual slow camera move of the papers opening shot. A single wide shot there would be better, at the final position, rather than the unnecessary slow camera move. These problems are occuring because they are trying to do too much, rather than follow the old KISS adage.


But the problems aren't with the actual movements going awry - they're with things being miscued or loaded wrongly, e.g. calling up a camera move which should happen off shot when that camera is actually live, loading a move into the running order which has everything move rather than a single camera, or loading a one person MCU where a two person wide is needed to frame it correctly.

As long as the cameras are controlled by the automation, the risk will exist of loading the wrong shot / move into the system. That's not a failure of the automation / technology - that's a risk of allowing humans to make decisions.



It's the result of having news that changes. If it was the same each day the automation would work perfectly.


Maybe the mighty BBC News department could have chosen a way of working that could cope with live News programmes. Or maybe that is too simple?
SR
SomeRandomStuff
I'm not sure how connected this automation is so this might be completely impossible...

Presumably these camera jitters are actually legitimate moves that were supposed to be made when the specific camera was off air. If the automation software was altered to include a bit of code that prevented these "off air" moves from being made at certain times, then we would presumably cease to see them.

So if a director selects an off air camera move whilst that camera is on air, the automation would refuse to move the camera.

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