The Newsroom

BBC Regional SD/HD Transmissions

Was BBC Regional Redundancies

VA
valley
Pete posted:

So on Virgin Media we've already got rid of BBC One Scotland SD and 101 is now the HD version. I suppose Virgin are a bit more forceful than Sky in terms of replacing non-HD equipment (think they killed of the last SD only boxes a while ago?). What proportion of Sky's boxes are likely to be SD only still? Do their HD boxes downscale for SD displays?

Considering Sky phased out SD boxes in 2010, I can’t imagine it’s very high.


SSSL the epg/encryption bit of Sky were suggesting over 1.8 million SD decoders are still active at end 2019 . Many used as secondary boxes.

Given the overall decline of the Sky platform (according to BARB universe data) the percent SD only will obviously fall, but its still significant - and more than total number of Freesat platform devices in use.

Do you know what that is as a percentage of total boxes? Makes sense that people would keep using older SD boxes as secondary ones for other rooms etc. - maybe a better question is how many people still use SD boxes as their primary system...
LL
London Lite Founding member London London
Pete posted:

So on Virgin Media we've already got rid of BBC One Scotland SD and 101 is now the HD version. I suppose Virgin are a bit more forceful than Sky in terms of replacing non-HD equipment (think they killed of the last SD only boxes a while ago?). What proportion of Sky's boxes are likely to be SD only still? Do their HD boxes downscale for SD displays?

Considering Sky phased out SD boxes in 2010, I can’t imagine it’s very high.


SSSL the epg/encryption bit of Sky were suggesting over 1.8 million SD decoders are still active at end 2019 . Many used as secondary boxes.

Given the overall decline of the Sky platform (according to BARB universe data) the percent SD only will obviously fall, but its still significant - and more than total number of Freesat platform devices in use.


And what does this data tell us? That SD is still popular in homes with secondary sets and I suspect those people who have the huge Full HD/4K sets and then end up watching a crap 544x576 SD channel with a low bitrate on it anyway!
RK
Rkolsen World News

There are a couple of issues here :


2. Distributing BBC One HD English regional variations. On Freeview HD this is possible - as there are already matching BBC One HD encoders for every ITV HD regional variation (a consequence of stat muxing PSB3 - the PSB HD mux) - though if the BBC regionalise more than ITV they will need to fund additional encoders not just for each BBC One HD variation - but also for BBC Two HD, ITV HD, C4 HD and C5 HD - even if they aren't regional - as that's how stat mux works)

Why would additional encoders be needed for BBC Two, Channel 4 and Channel 5 HD? Doesn’t one encoder (presumably there for ITV) take all the inputs at a standard bit rate and output a stat muxed stream ready to the transmitter?


Yes, but the stat mux encoders all need to 'trade' with each other, so as Noggin points out, you still need new encoders for BBC 2, C4, and C5 etc, to negotiate the bit-budget with the BBC 1 and ITV 1 encoders



There are a couple of issues here :


2. Distributing BBC One HD English regional variations. On Freeview HD this is possible - as there are already matching BBC One HD encoders for every ITV HD regional variation (a consequence of stat muxing PSB3 - the PSB HD mux) - though if the BBC regionalise more than ITV they will need to fund additional encoders not just for each BBC One HD variation - but also for BBC Two HD, ITV HD, C4 HD and C5 HD - even if they aren't regional - as that's how stat mux works)

Why would additional encoders be needed for BBC Two, Channel 4 and Channel 5 HD? Doesn’t one encoder (presumably there for ITV) take all the inputs at a standard bit rate and output a stat muxed stream ready to the transmitter?


Yes, but the stat mux encoders all need to 'trade' with each other, so as Noggin points out, you still need new encoders for BBC 2, C4, and C5 etc, to negotiate the bit-budget with the BBC 1 and ITV 1 encoders

Okay. Things must be a bit different there. In the US the various program feeds are set to the ATSC encoder which takes the feeds and massages the data in it of itself.
Don’t let anyone treat you like you’re a VO/SOT when you’re a PKG.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Considering Sky phased out SD boxes in 2010, I can’t imagine it’s very high.


SSSL the epg/encryption bit of Sky were suggesting over 1.8 million SD decoders are still active at end 2019 . Many used as secondary boxes.

Given the overall decline of the Sky platform (according to BARB universe data) the percent SD only will obviously fall, but its still significant - and more than total number of Freesat platform devices in use.

Do you know what that is as a percentage of total boxes? Makes sense that people would keep using older SD boxes as secondary ones for other rooms etc. - maybe a better question is how many people still use SD boxes as their primary system...


To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
MI
m_in_m Anglia (East) Look East

SSSL the epg/encryption bit of Sky were suggesting over 1.8 million SD decoders are still active at end 2019 . Many used as secondary boxes.

Given the overall decline of the Sky platform (according to BARB universe data) the percent SD only will obviously fall, but its still significant - and more than total number of Freesat platform devices in use.

Do you know what that is as a percentage of total boxes? Makes sense that people would keep using older SD boxes as secondary ones for other rooms etc. - maybe a better question is how many people still use SD boxes as their primary system...


To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?

Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Do you know what that is as a percentage of total boxes? Makes sense that people would keep using older SD boxes as secondary ones for other rooms etc. - maybe a better question is how many people still use SD boxes as their primary system...


To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?

Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.


I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.

https://cpc.farnell.com/visiblewave/vhk6/hybrid-6-output-wideband-lnb-with/dp/AP03479?mckv=sKSsWyf3P_dc|pcrid|224680055011|kword||match||plid||slid||product|AP03479|pgrid|51011277550|ptaid|pla-370876575513|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8rT8BRCbARIsALWiOvQwq-O9N__eXhupG4B2A3-00dX26bwcRhyI29VN6RpTyrg-SRnSuDkaAoprEALw_wcB
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
[quote:0022632035="Rkolsen" pid="1267027"]
Okay. Things must be a bit different there. In the US the various program feeds are set to the ATSC encoder which takes the feeds and massages the data in it of itself.[/quote:0022632035]

I think your 'Black Box' concept for 'an encoder', is bigger and broader than mine.
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)

To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?

Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.


I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.


I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.


I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.


I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.


Indeed, though you pay extra (per month) for a mini-box ? I suspect if you just want a Freesat box, or non subs old Sky box in another room you have to sort it out yourself now, or at least not involve Sky with the install ? Which puts us back into 'enthusiast' territory ?
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)

I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.


I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.


Indeed, though you pay extra (per month) for a mini-box ? I suspect if you just want a Freesat box, or non subs old Sky box in another room you have to sort it out yourself now, or at least not involve Sky with the install ? Which puts us back into 'enthusiast' territory ?


Quite probably. I'm not sure what happens as well, if you wanted to be able to watch 4K in more than one room, given the mini boxes don't support it. Don't know if a second full Sky Q box would work wirelessly in the same way as a mini does, or if that would need a second wired connection to the LNB.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today

I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.


Indeed, though you pay extra (per month) for a mini-box ? I suspect if you just want a Freesat box, or non subs old Sky box in another room you have to sort it out yourself now, or at least not involve Sky with the install ? Which puts us back into 'enthusiast' territory ?


Quite probably. I'm not sure what happens as well, if you wanted to be able to watch 4K in more than one room, given the mini boxes don't support it. Don't know if a second full Sky Q box would work wirelessly in the same way as a mini does, or if that would need a second wired connection to the LNB.


Probably the latter. Though the LNBs don't require 19 volt or 22 kHz switching, they just send the entire spectrum to the
Q box, one H feed the other V, so you can just split the feeds in a simpler manner to feed multiple boxes.
Which simplifies the requirements for communal systems etc, but also makes older systems unsuitable for Sky Q, and conversely newer systems won't work with Freesat and old Sky boxes, unless they are dual equipped.

I'm having Sky Q next week. I've installed the dish and hybrid 6 way LNB myself, to ensure I'm compatible for both Q and 'Freesat'. I read somewhere on t'internet that a Sky Q LNB when connected to a Freesat box or old Sky box just kicks into 'vanilla' Universal mode. Well, not the model I've got !
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
RK
Rkolsen World News
[quote:0022632035="Rkolsen" pid="1267027"]
Okay. Things must be a bit different there. In the US the various program feeds are set to the ATSC encoder which takes the feeds and massages the data in it of itself.


I think your 'Black Box' concept for 'an encoder', is bigger and broader than mine.[/quote]

Yes there are other things in the stream. But that’s the overall gist of the latest technologies from Harmonic for both ATSC 1 and 3.0 prior to transport.
Don’t let anyone treat you like you’re a VO/SOT when you’re a PKG.

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