The Newsroom

BBC Regional SD/HD Transmissions

Was BBC Regional Redundancies

MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
MI
m_in_m Anglia (East) Look East
To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?

Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Do you know what that is as a percentage of total boxes? Makes sense that people would keep using older SD boxes as secondary ones for other rooms etc. - maybe a better question is how many people still use SD boxes as their primary system...


To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?

Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.


I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.

https://cpc.farnell.com/visiblewave/vhk6/hybrid-6-output-wideband-lnb-with/dp/AP03479?mckv=sKSsWyf3P_dc|pcrid|224680055011|kword||match||plid||slid||product|AP03479|pgrid|51011277550|ptaid|pla-370876575513|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8rT8BRCbARIsALWiOvQwq-O9N__eXhupG4B2A3-00dX26bwcRhyI29VN6RpTyrg-SRnSuDkaAoprEALw_wcB
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
[quote:0022632035="Rkolsen" pid="1267027"]
Okay. Things must be a bit different there. In the US the various program feeds are set to the ATSC encoder which takes the feeds and massages the data in it of itself.[/quote:0022632035]

I think your 'Black Box' concept for 'an encoder', is bigger and broader than mine.
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)

To be using the older SD boxes as 'bedroom' devices would imply that they've gone to the trouble of wiring extra LNB outputs to those rooms. Outside of 'enthusiasts' is that likely?

Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.


I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.


I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Sky will install them for you. When I loved into a flat in 2006 it had Sky connections in the living room and bedroom. This was a dish provided by Sky not a communal one.


I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.


I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.


Indeed, though you pay extra (per month) for a mini-box ? I suspect if you just want a Freesat box, or non subs old Sky box in another room you have to sort it out yourself now, or at least not involve Sky with the install ? Which puts us back into 'enthusiast' territory ?
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)

I wonder if they still do, because Sky Q uses a proprietary Wideband LNB, that operates differently to the Universal LNBs that the pre Q boxes used, (and Freesat still use). You need one of these hybrid LNBs if you want Sky Q and 'old' Sky/Freesat.


I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.


Indeed, though you pay extra (per month) for a mini-box ? I suspect if you just want a Freesat box, or non subs old Sky box in another room you have to sort it out yourself now, or at least not involve Sky with the install ? Which puts us back into 'enthusiast' territory ?


Quite probably. I'm not sure what happens as well, if you wanted to be able to watch 4K in more than one room, given the mini boxes don't support it. Don't know if a second full Sky Q box would work wirelessly in the same way as a mini does, or if that would need a second wired connection to the LNB.
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today

I doubt they offer this service anymore, as nowadays, for secondary TV sets, Sky Q‘s mini boxes are connected to the main box via your home wifi network, so there would be no need for them to provide separate wired connections from the dish.


Indeed, though you pay extra (per month) for a mini-box ? I suspect if you just want a Freesat box, or non subs old Sky box in another room you have to sort it out yourself now, or at least not involve Sky with the install ? Which puts us back into 'enthusiast' territory ?


Quite probably. I'm not sure what happens as well, if you wanted to be able to watch 4K in more than one room, given the mini boxes don't support it. Don't know if a second full Sky Q box would work wirelessly in the same way as a mini does, or if that would need a second wired connection to the LNB.


Probably the latter. Though the LNBs don't require 19 volt or 22 kHz switching, they just send the entire spectrum to the
Q box, one H feed the other V, so you can just split the feeds in a simpler manner to feed multiple boxes.
Which simplifies the requirements for communal systems etc, but also makes older systems unsuitable for Sky Q, and conversely newer systems won't work with Freesat and old Sky boxes, unless they are dual equipped.

I'm having Sky Q next week. I've installed the dish and hybrid 6 way LNB myself, to ensure I'm compatible for both Q and 'Freesat'. I read somewhere on t'internet that a Sky Q LNB when connected to a Freesat box or old Sky box just kicks into 'vanilla' Universal mode. Well, not the model I've got !
--
Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
RK
Rkolsen World News
[quote:0022632035="Rkolsen" pid="1267027"]
Okay. Things must be a bit different there. In the US the various program feeds are set to the ATSC encoder which takes the feeds and massages the data in it of itself.


I think your 'Black Box' concept for 'an encoder', is bigger and broader than mine.[/quote]

Yes there are other things in the stream. But that’s the overall gist of the latest technologies from Harmonic for both ATSC 1 and 3.0 prior to transport.
Don’t let anyone treat you like you’re a VO/SOT when you’re a PKG.
OV
Orry Verducci Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)

Okay. Things must be a bit different there. In the US the various program feeds are set to the ATSC encoder which takes the feeds and massages the data in it of itself.


I think your 'Black Box' concept for 'an encoder', is bigger and broader than mine.


Yes there are other things in the stream. But that’s the overall gist of the latest technologies from Harmonic for both ATSC 1 and 3.0 prior to transport.

There are encoders that can handle multiple inputs and outputs, and there is an increasing amount of cloud encoding, but my experience is generally each variation of each channel will have it's own dedicated encoder. They're only brought together at the end by the multiplexer (another seperate device).

I look after multiple channels going out in SD and HD to all the platforms in the UK, and some in the US as well, and every variation of every channel needs its own encoder. For example one channel has a 'Freeview SD' encoder, and a 'Sky HD' encoder, and a 'US DirecTV' encoder, and so on.

While there are some operating differences between the US and Europe, generally the same encoders are used on both sides of the pond as the video and audio streams are the same, so there's no difference in terms of encoding between DVB and ATSC. For example there's many Tandberg/Ericsson/MediaKind encoders and decoders in use for distribution both in the UK and the US.

Constant bitrate encoding is easy, you can have a single encoder that feeds every mux the channel needs to be on provided it has enough space. Variable stat muxing is more complicated as it requires all the encoders and the multiplexer to communicate with each other to decide which channels get which percentage of the mux capacity based on the content being encoded. Therefore each mux (i.e. each region) usually requires every channel to have dedicated encoders as the requirements will be different for each mux, and so you can't have a single encoder for all the muxes as the allowed capacity on one mux won't be the same on the others.

There are ways you can stat mux and share encoders. There are muxes which allocate for example 20% to regional variations encoded at a constant bitrate, and 80% to national stat muxed channels which are the same on every variation, allowing once set of 'national' encoders to be used for all the regional muxes. This is how the local muxes in the UK work. However it's a less than ideal situation as you can end up with a local channel using a higher bitrate than required (e.g. slow moving movie), and a stat muxed channel becoming a blocky mess (e.g. sports) as it's not able to use the unrequired capacity, so it's generally not used for channels with high viewership.
RK
Rkolsen World News

I think your 'Black Box' concept for 'an encoder', is bigger and broader than mine.


Yes there are other things in the stream. But that’s the overall gist of the latest technologies from Harmonic for both ATSC 1 and 3.0 prior to transport.

There are encoders that can handle multiple inputs and outputs, and there is an increasing amount of cloud encoding, but my experience is generally each variation of each channel will have it's own dedicated encoder. They're only brought together at the end by the multiplexer (another seperate device).

I look after multiple channels going out in SD and HD to all the platforms in the UK, and some in the US as well, and every variation of every channel needs its own encoder. For example one channel has a 'Freeview SD' encoder, and a 'Sky HD' encoder, and a 'US DirecTV' encoder, and so on.

While there are some operating differences between the US and Europe, generally the same encoders are used on both sides of the pond as the video and audio streams are the same, so there's no difference in terms of encoding between DVB and ATSC. For example there's many Tandberg/Ericsson/MediaKind encoders and decoders in use for distribution both in the UK and the US.

Constant bitrate encoding is easy, you can have a single encoder that feeds every mux the channel needs to be on provided it has enough space. Variable stat muxing is more complicated as it requires all the encoders and the multiplexer to communicate with each other to decide which channels get which percentage of the mux capacity based on the content being encoded. Therefore each mux (i.e. each region) usually requires every channel to have dedicated encoders as the requirements will be different for each mux, and so you can't have a single encoder for all the muxes as the allowed capacity on one mux won't be the same on the others.

There are ways you can stat mux and share encoders. There are muxes which allocate for example 20% to regional variations encoded at a constant bitrate, and 80% to national stat muxed channels which are the same on every variation, allowing once set of 'national' encoders to be used for all the regional muxes. This is how the local muxes in the UK work. However it's a less than ideal situation as you can end up with a local channel using a higher bitrate than required (e.g. slow moving movie), and a stat muxed channel becoming a blocky mess (e.g. sports) as it's not able to use the unrequired capacity, so it's generally not used for channels with high viewership.


Someone mentioned earlier that if the BBC were to go HD it would require additional encoders for BBC Two, Channel 4 and 5 in HD. If the regions are generally closely matched to ITV wouldn’t they already have dedicated encoders for national channels each region?

Right now things are relatively simple with ATSC 1.0 every station has an HD feed that’s typically the network some if not all have one or two SD diginets. From what I’ve seen they go straight through the same encoder. That signal goes to the transmitter, DirecTV picks up OTA and cable companies usually take the ASI stream as it was encoded over the air but via fiber. I know here in Baltimore Comcast on two stations has a separate feed of special ads and that’s common elsewhere. Things got a bit more complex with the spectrum auction with some stations or duopolies channels sharing. I don’t get that here but with even the advancements I shudder to think what the PQ looks like on a station with two 1080i and three SD channels in 19.8Mbps. I’ve seen on many NBC and Telemundo O&O duopolies that are statmuxed with a 1.8Mbps MPEG-2 bitrate for a 1080i channel.

With ATSC 3.0 being rolled out usually two or three stations are broadcasting ATSC3.0 while the remaining take the 3.0’s program feed and broadcasts it at 1.0. Some are using one encoder for both while others are encoded twice (leaving the originating station and then again at the second).
Don’t let anyone treat you like you’re a VO/SOT when you’re a PKG.
SP
Steve in Pudsey Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Isn't that the issue - ITV don't want to pay to put that infrastructure in place for the BBC to get the benefit for free.
Write that down in your copybook now.

Newer posts