The Newsroom

BBC News - Venetian Blinds and Chinese Lanterns

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DT
DTV
Can anyone confirm if this logo behind Moira is real or virtual in this case? And, if real, is it purely painted onto canvas or how created? Ta.


The images on the TV Ark page (https://www.tvark.org/?page=1630) for this era would suggest that the symbol is real. I doubt it would be canvas, most likely a simple painted flat.
JW
JamesWorldNews
Thanks DTV. Interesting images. Moira appears to be conducting a studio interview in one of them. That’s unusual in itself. And the desk looks rather tatty and clunky in some shots too.

And Mark Austin is practically a teenager here!
SP
Steve in Pudsey
I think the Moira studio interview might not be all that it seems - the bloke looks like Chris Serle, and I think he is interviewing Moira for this

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/f0117e605b964d59aad2efc3dc7e7f74
NG
noggin Founding member

I’ve often wondered about the term “Inset”. It’s still in daily use in the BBC (and elsewhere?) and these days means an image in one of the studio screens. I assume it comes from these days where images were “inset” keyed via CSO into the set?


I've never associated it particularly with CSO - I just took it to mean anything that was 'inset' (i.e. keyed into or keyed over) a camera shot. At the BBC there were lots of different words for that device depending on which region you worked in - flags, windows, over-the-shoulders etc., but network usually called them insets.

I think prior to CSO a remotely controlled physical slide projector was sometimes used rear-projecting onto a screen.
NG
noggin Founding member
DTV posted:
Can anyone confirm if this logo behind Moira is real or virtual in this case? And, if real, is it purely painted onto canvas or how created? Ta.


The images on the TV Ark page (https://www.tvark.org/?page=1630) for this era would suggest that the symbol is real. I doubt it would be canvas, most likely a simple painted flat.


Yes - looking at the grabs on TV Ark it appears that the size of the stylised globe symbol changes with shot-size - suggesting it is physical rather than keyed over. I guess the inset shots were either on a different angle, or fully covered the symbol.

My guess is that having a physical symbol rather than a keyed symbol was a way of ensuring you could brand a newsflash on minimal staffing, or didn't have to have a graphics source and keyer tied up to do a generic shot. (Useful for low-staffed bulletins)
JW
JamesWorldNews
DTV posted:
Can anyone confirm if this logo behind Moira is real or virtual in this case? And, if real, is it purely painted onto canvas or how created? Ta.


The images on the TV Ark page (https://www.tvark.org/?page=1630) for this era would suggest that the symbol is real. I doubt it would be canvas, most likely a simple painted flat.


Yes - looking at the grabs on TV Ark it appears that the size of the stylised globe symbol changes with shot-size - suggesting it is physical rather than keyed over. I guess the inset shots were either on a different angle, or fully covered the symbol.

My guess is that having a physical symbol rather than a keyed symbol was a way of ensuring you could brand a newsflash on minimal staffing, or didn't have to have a graphics source and keyer tied up to do a generic shot. (Useful for low-staffed bulletins)


True. All valid points.

I'm still unsure why they changed the marque from burgundy to blue though. And perhaps its my aging self, but I struggle to see perfect circularity in that blue logo behind Moira/Jan. It always looked slightly eccentric to me, i.e. very slightly elliptical in form on the 2 to 4 o'clock position as we see it, as opposed to a perfect round.

Might be Bombay Sapphire.............
NB
NicB1971
Great thread. George Fenton's theme was full-blown orchestra and punchy - still better than today's David Lowe's endless bleeps. I never got to find a clean copy of the intro - another one to the elusive list!
SP
Spencer
Great thread. George Fenton's theme was full-blown orchestra and punchy - still better than today's David Lowe's endless bleeps. I never got to find a clean copy of the intro - another one to the elusive list!


I recorded this from a Charlie Brooker's Newswipe, when he used the theme for the closing credits, if it's any good. I can't work out if it's been faded a little at the end, or if that is the full track...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7aq3d29f9ogyrcw/BBC%20News%201980s.mp3?dl=0
JW
JamesWorldNews
Thank you, Spencer. Now I need to figure out how to make this my ringtone..........😉
JW
JamesWorldNews
So how did this work, going from the tighter shot without the overlay to the wide shot with it.

(starts at 10m51s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq6zwTHI3g8

I can't quite work out how the angles would work for the blue panel not to be in shot on the tighter shot?


The second camera is to the left of the first camera. Crabbing a camera makes an enormous difference to the background in shot even when there’s actually only a few feet between the two camera positions on the floor. (It depends on how far away the cameras are from the presenter and how far the background is from the presenter as well).

I’ve often wondered about the term “Inset”. It’s still in daily use in the BBC (and elsewhere?) and these days means an image in one of the studio screens. I assume it comes from these days where images were “inset” keyed via CSO into the set?


Here’s an example (mid bulletin) of poorer framing from the second camera and the outer fringes of the logo can be seen encroaching into shot.
SW
Steve Williams
I've never associated it particularly with CSO - I just took it to mean anything that was 'inset' (i.e. keyed into or keyed over) a camera shot. At the BBC there were lots of different words for that device depending on which region you worked in - flags, windows, over-the-shoulders etc., but network usually called them insets.


I always assumed it was to refer to any picture within a picture, like in a newspaper ("L-R John Humphrys, John Simpson and (inset) Moira Stuart"). Which is what they were.

I'm still unsure why they changed the marque from burgundy to blue though.


The change was when the Nine was relaunched with the flying fish fingers titles. That had a blue desk and presumably the weekend bulletins came from the same set with a different background, so by changing the colour scheme to blue they didn't need to change the desk.
RW
Robert Williams Founding member
I'm still unsure why they changed the marque from burgundy to blue though.


The change was when the Nine was relaunched with the flying fish fingers titles. That had a blue desk and presumably the weekend bulletins came from the same set with a different background, so by changing the colour scheme to blue they didn't need to change the desk.


I'm sure the change happened earlier in 1985, though? Indeed, this clip shows the blue titles and set (which I always took to be little more than a case of refreshing the look) were in place by May 1985, while the Nine O'Clock News didn't relaunch until September.



However this means the blue titles must have co-existed for a while with the red titles on News After Noon and the Nine O'Clock News. News After Noon eventually changed to blue, but before that, for a while had a set that was a rather strange mauve colour:

https://www.tvark.org/?page=media&mediaid=105103

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