The Newsroom

BBC News - more technical problems (21/11/18)

Split from BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards (November 2018)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
IS
Inspector Sands
AlexS posted:
And a long one


Interesting that the presenters of Today have the time written in words on a screen. If only Jack De Manio had had one:
https://audioboom.com/posts/504678-jack-de-manio-2nd-presenter-today
NG
noggin Founding member
Looks like Newsday is being presented as per normal from Studio C, appears either the issue has been fixed, or the programme was already in the BNCS before it crashed.


You don't really load a programme into BNCS - it's not an automation system like Mosart.

BNCS is a virtual manual control system that lets you control local and station routers, IFB and talkback switching, colour correctors, under-monitor displays, tallies, remote cameras, line switchers etc. from a standard control panel (usually a touch screen, but mouse control can be an option too) - rather than needing manufacturer specific panels for each function. It's heavily network based, and when it falls over you can lose a lot of functionality. If BNCS panels go down and/or the backend interfaces to the BNCS-controlled kit fail and/or the network that links the two fails then this could stop you routing outside sources to your control room, routing your control room output to the Iines to master control etc. It could mean you lose camera tallies or red lights in the monitor stack, are unable to label sources or talkback buttons etc.

In OB trucks - and some studios - you often see the VSM system offering similar functionality (VSM is now a Lawo product)

BNCS was designed in-house by the BBC (in Manchester originally I believe), and then when BBC Technology was sold to Siemens-now-ATOS I think BNCS was part of that sale. It's in use at IMG, Sky and Timeline (aka BT Sport) studios I believe.

At the BBC BNCS is basically providing a unified manual user interface for equipment from a large variety of manufacturers that would otherwise potentially mean you needed to learn lots of different UIs for that specific kit. The basic UI on the version of BNCS the BBC use hasn't changed since at least 1998 - and it's usually an incredibly reliable system.

In some cases there will be emergency hard panels that aren't connected to BNCS for some functionality, or you may be able to KVM to kit and control it from a 'PC-style' UI running on the kit itself. However if the BNCS failure is caused by a major IP network failure, these KVMs may run on the same network.
Last edited by noggin on 22 November 2018 10:45am
BU
buster


In ye olden days, the Mark and Lard show used to be an OS into a Radio 1 studio, where a tech op would sit with an open fader on Manchester and fade up the news when required.


Which went spectacularly wrong just before Mark and Lard departed!

SC
scottishtv Founding member
Which went spectacularly wrong just before Mark and Lard departed!

That's a classic, but there's an even better version available (where the same thing also happened the next day) and some extra bants from the listeners about what went wrong.
BU
buster
Which went spectacularly wrong just before Mark and Lard departed!

That's a classic, but there's an even better version available (where the same thing also happened the next day) and some extra bants from the listeners about what went wrong.


Ah yes I couldn't find that one - love the idea that "Hey Ya" is behind a pane of glass...
It did seem like that during 2004, that emergency tape was used a few times on Radio 1 in that period so you knew when something was going on. You'd get the silence and then the "Radio" "1 2 3" at the start of Hey Ya and know something was a foot.
IS
Inspector Sands

BNCS was designed in-house by the BBC (in Manchester originally I believe), and then when BBC Technology was sold to Siemens-now-ATOS I think BNCS was part of that sale. It's in use at IMG, Sky and Timeline (aka BT Sport) studios I believe.

At the BBC BNCS is basically providing a unified manual user interface for equipment from a large variety of manufacturers that would otherwise potentially mean you needed to learn lots of different UIs for that specific kit. The basic UI on the version of BNCS the BBC use hasn't changed since at least 1998 - and it's usually an incredibly reliable system.

Though it's worth pointing out that there's not one BNCS system for the whole BBC, different bits have seperate systems - Salfords BNCS is seperate to the one in BH for example and some areas have different versions of the software so they look slightly different. They all do essentially the same thing but they can look very different and can take a bit of getting used to first time you use a different one.


The nice thing about it is that it can be customised, the base architecture and software is the same as are the drivers provided by the equipment manufacturers, but each customer can create and programme their own screens and controls and organise it as they like. Some departments have BNCS specialists who develop and program the systems, often there'll be a 'wouldn't it be nice if we could.. ' moment and that functionality will get added.

Quote:
In some cases there will be emergency hard panels that aren't connected to BNCS for some functionality, or you may be able to KVM to kit and control it from a 'PC-style' UI running on the kit itself.

Yes, although that's fairly straight forward when it's a device like a satellite reciever, but operating a video router from its own software is more complicated.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
I would imagine there will be a post mortem of yesterday's failure, and part of that will look at whether there are the right contingency plans in place, such as whether documentation, passwords etc are readily available for key routers so that basic services can continue in the absence of BNCS. I suspect the issues with radio studio to network routing will be seen as a high priority for a better backup plan.
NG
noggin Founding member
Yes, although that's fairly straight forward when it's a device like a satellite reciever, but operating a video router from its own software is more complicated.


Yes - though if you're used to operating kit 'not via BNCS' not that complicated. That's the downside of BNCS - people don't actually know how the kit they are operating is really operated in anger without BNCS.
IS
Inspector Sands

Yes - though if you're used to operating kit 'not via BNCS' not that complicated. That's the downside of BNCS - people don't actually know how the kit they are operating is really operated in anger without BNCS.

It's more that if you're using BNCS to control it then sources and destinations probably aren't named on the device itself. Routing server 4.1a to OS 3 is easier than src 137 to dear 344. It's also sometimes the case that one route on BNCS is actually several simultaneous routes on different routers, or one thing to more than one destination... But none of that is obvious as BNCS handles it all seamlessly
Last edited by Inspector Sands on 22 November 2018 11:53pm
RK
Rkolsen

Yes - though if you're used to operating kit 'not via BNCS' not that complicated. That's the downside of BNCS - people don't actually know how the kit they are operating is really operated in anger without BNCS.

It's more that if you're using BNCS to control it then sources and destinations probably aren't named on the device itself. Routing server 4.1a to OS 3 is easier than src 137 to dear 344. It's also sometimes the case that one route on BNCS is actually several simultaneous routes on different routers, or one thing to more than one destination... But none of that is obvious as BNCS handles it all seamlessly


Out of curiosity I know each studio has their own router. But I assume there’s a master router taking the outputs of the studio and the various OS (how many OS can NBH handle at one moment - galleries seem to be 12) to the individual galleries. Could BNCS be over ruled if they had a router patch panel control to individually put them into the local router?
MA
Markymark


BNCS was designed in-house by the BBC (in Manchester originally I believe), and then when BBC Technology was sold to Siemens-now-ATOS I think BNCS was part of that sale.


I thought it came back 'in house', and is administered by a team at BBC Belfast ?
NG
noggin Founding member


BNCS was designed in-house by the BBC (in Manchester originally I believe), and then when BBC Technology was sold to Siemens-now-ATOS I think BNCS was part of that sale.


I thought it came back 'in house', and is administered by a team at BBC Belfast ?


That may well be the case. (Or may be the case for the 'BBC Flavour' of BNCS - the installations at IMG and Sky have a significantly different UI to the BBC installations, which have hardly changed in UI terms since at least 1998!)

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