MA
So would you have preferred whoever was rostered for News 24 or World to come in and ignore the strike, rather than Khan, Osman and Cole being drafted in? Or even just prerecorded programmes and no live news at all?
(I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious)
I'd rather no one came in. Point is Cole, Osman and Khan were not scheduled to be on the channel, and certainly not for so long. I don't know why they came in but they were effectively stabbing their colleagues in the back for their own ends.
Khan, nice enough bloke if a bit dippy. Probably sees this as his big break. Never works though. He will get a big bonus then be completely forgotten by management. The journalists however will not forget. Has probably lost any friend he had in the newsroom.
Osman, usually on a different planet so probably didn't realize there was a strike. Needs the money anyhow as she was dropped by Points West. A figure of fun in management meetings where they spend hours bitching about her sloppy pronunciations and her weired dress sense. Memories of her one daytime shift on News24 where she introduced Andy Tighe as Andy Tiggy still brings a chuckle to the lips of gallery staff. About four years ago went to see the Head of TV News to say she was ready to present the National News, he had no idea of who she was and had to ask the head of News24. Well now she has got her wish.
Cole, a cantankerous old sod who will see the strike as a chance to annoy as many of his colleagues as possible. No longer used on World much to the delight of staff who were fed up with his bullying ways and general laziness. Now used as a fill in on News24 or World when they are very desperate.
Marcus
Founding member
thegeek posted:
Marcus posted:
I have no problem with those who come in and break the strike to do their own jobs, such as Wogan or Declan.
But those who come in to deliberately undermine their colleagues simply to try to ingratiate themselves with management and to make a fast buck, are frankly not very nice people.
But those who come in to deliberately undermine their colleagues simply to try to ingratiate themselves with management and to make a fast buck, are frankly not very nice people.
(I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious)
I'd rather no one came in. Point is Cole, Osman and Khan were not scheduled to be on the channel, and certainly not for so long. I don't know why they came in but they were effectively stabbing their colleagues in the back for their own ends.
insider posted:
Khan, nice enough bloke if a bit dippy. Probably sees this as his big break. Never works though. He will get a big bonus then be completely forgotten by management. The journalists however will not forget. Has probably lost any friend he had in the newsroom.
Osman, usually on a different planet so probably didn't realize there was a strike. Needs the money anyhow as she was dropped by Points West. A figure of fun in management meetings where they spend hours bitching about her sloppy pronunciations and her weired dress sense. Memories of her one daytime shift on News24 where she introduced Andy Tighe as Andy Tiggy still brings a chuckle to the lips of gallery staff. About four years ago went to see the Head of TV News to say she was ready to present the National News, he had no idea of who she was and had to ask the head of News24. Well now she has got her wish.
Cole, a cantankerous old sod who will see the strike as a chance to annoy as many of his colleagues as possible. No longer used on World much to the delight of staff who were fed up with his bullying ways and general laziness. Now used as a fill in on News24 or World when they are very desperate.
MA
I noticed that Mr. Witchell was also on duty.
Not according to the Media Guardian.
Not always completely accurate I concede
Who worked
Terry Wogan -Crossed picket line to present Radio 2 show
Shelagh Fogarty - Radio 5 Live breakfast presenter broke ranks with most colleagues on station
Chris Moyles - Radio 1 breakfast DJ. Most of his colleagues also worked
Evan Davies - Economics editor was one of few senior reporters to work
Susan Osman -Fronted News 24 updates and BBC1's One O'Clock News
Akhtar Khan - Presenter of early morning magazine show Fast Track fronted BBC1's Breakfast
Alan Titchmarsh -Fronted coverage of Chelsea flower show
Declan Curry -Only presenter to turn up for Breakfast slot
Daisy Sampson -Political correspondent discussed Tory leadership on One O' Clock News
Who didn't work
John Humphrys, James Naughtie - Told not to turn up. Most other Radio 4 presenters also failed to show
Natasha Kaplinksy, Dermot Murnaghan - None of usual BBC Breakfast team turned up
Jeremy Paxman -Told not to come in
Andrew Marr -Refused to cross picket line.
George Alagiah, Fiona Bruce -Declined to present Six O' Clock and Ten O' Clock News
Nicholas Witchell - Royal correspondent made pre-recorded item
Marcus
Founding member
BBC WORLD posted:
I noticed that Mr. Witchell was also on duty.
Not according to the Media Guardian.
Not always completely accurate I concede
Media Guardian posted:
Who worked
Terry Wogan -Crossed picket line to present Radio 2 show
Shelagh Fogarty - Radio 5 Live breakfast presenter broke ranks with most colleagues on station
Chris Moyles - Radio 1 breakfast DJ. Most of his colleagues also worked
Evan Davies - Economics editor was one of few senior reporters to work
Susan Osman -Fronted News 24 updates and BBC1's One O'Clock News
Akhtar Khan - Presenter of early morning magazine show Fast Track fronted BBC1's Breakfast
Alan Titchmarsh -Fronted coverage of Chelsea flower show
Declan Curry -Only presenter to turn up for Breakfast slot
Daisy Sampson -Political correspondent discussed Tory leadership on One O' Clock News
Who didn't work
John Humphrys, James Naughtie - Told not to turn up. Most other Radio 4 presenters also failed to show
Natasha Kaplinksy, Dermot Murnaghan - None of usual BBC Breakfast team turned up
Jeremy Paxman -Told not to come in
Andrew Marr -Refused to cross picket line.
George Alagiah, Fiona Bruce -Declined to present Six O' Clock and Ten O' Clock News
Nicholas Witchell - Royal correspondent made pre-recorded item
NG
You seem to think that Akhtar has never presented live before which is simply not true. He was a regular fill in on the channel a year or so ago. He also did live reporting shifts as well. It just happens he currently does FastTrack. Also remember the weekend night shift always used to be 6 hours (0000-0600) so some presenters are used to doing a long shift - especially when you actually only read for 30 minutes, with pre-rec'd programming in back half hours.
I have no problem with those who come in and break the strike to do their own jobs, such as Wogan or Declan.
No - I agree. The decision to join a union is an entirely personal one, and if you chose not to be a member of a union, and chose to go to work as normal, and do your normal job then I have a significant level of sympathy.
Similarly I have a great deal of time for non-union members - especially freelance workers who are in a particularly vulnerable situation - who felt unable to cross a picket line and didn't turn up for work.
But those who come in to deliberately undermine their colleagues simply to try to ingratiate themselves with management and to make a fast buck, are frankly not very nice people.
Yes - though I don't think any of the presenters who worked on the News 24 sustaining service yesterday did themselves any favours. They were some of the weaker presenters the channel has - and I suspect not that popular with their colleagues before yesterday (so had less to lose by crossing a picket line) I don't think many viewers will have been wowed by their previously less well-known presenting skills...
Widening the debate - I think that there is a still a degree of ignorance as to why the unions are striking. This is one of the first strikes I can remember at the BBC that wasn't about pay.
There are a number of issues - and I'm not sure that they have been clearly explained by anyone.
There are the issues of redundancies - the people the BBC management have decided they no longer require within the organisation. This is the most widely reported issue.
However the "outsourcing" and "sell off" issue has been less well-reported. This covers the moving of services provided internally by the BBC currently, by BBC employees, to outside companies, with some current BBC employees expected to move to the new companies. However these new companies have only limited responsibilities to match the BBC conditions of service in areas like pensions etc. If you had worked for the BBC for 25 years (in many cases not taking higher paid jobs elsewhere), on the basis that you were committed to the BBC, and stayed because of a good final salary pension scheme etc., you can imagine your anger when you are told that your job is staying, but you'll have to work for Siemens, or some other company, with a totally different (and probably not as good) pension plan...
This issue is also related to areas like the sell-off of BBC Resourced and BBC Broadcast. There are a LOT of people in both these areas who work there because they want to work for the BBC - again often taking a pay-cut to work there because they are committed to the corporation. To be told your job has been sold off to a third-party, profit-making, non-public service operation, and that you will no longer be working for the BBC (it is likely that these services, once sold off, will no longer be BBC branded) is also a real issue to many.
Add to that programmes that are already running on highly-efficient staffing models, with no slack at all, to be told they have to match the same efficiencies as other programmes which have acres of excess and over-staffing, with no consideration on an individual level is very galling. Some programme areas may well be able to cut back by 15% quite easily, others have already been cut, and cut, and cut, and cut... The seeming lack of discussion over these "efficiency savings" is a real problem for many, very moderate, employees.
And then don't get people started on the BBC finding £500 million for Manchester...
noggin
Founding member
Marcus posted:
NickyS posted:
News24 posted:
I think that regardless of people's opinions to the strike, Akhtar Khan and Stephen Cole pulled off blinders. Akhtar has made a real name for himself, spending so long in the chair, presenting Breakfast and newsreading live which is completely different to putting together a pre recorded package.
Stephen Cole also coped really well, with live news, doing the 6 and 10 o'clock news, and stayed on for hours.
It's also worth noting Susan Osmond's contribution - but to be honest anyone could have filled the gap between the two mega shifts.
They did well to put out so much news in a relatively organised manner. Lets see what next week brings.
(oh, and we got a 50 second spinning globe with headline bed and a full length countdown too
)
Stephen Cole also coped really well, with live news, doing the 6 and 10 o'clock news, and stayed on for hours.
It's also worth noting Susan Osmond's contribution - but to be honest anyone could have filled the gap between the two mega shifts.
They did well to put out so much news in a relatively organised manner. Lets see what next week brings.
(oh, and we got a 50 second spinning globe with headline bed and a full length countdown too
)
You seem to think that Akhtar has never presented live before which is simply not true. He was a regular fill in on the channel a year or so ago. He also did live reporting shifts as well. It just happens he currently does FastTrack. Also remember the weekend night shift always used to be 6 hours (0000-0600) so some presenters are used to doing a long shift - especially when you actually only read for 30 minutes, with pre-rec'd programming in back half hours.
I have no problem with those who come in and break the strike to do their own jobs, such as Wogan or Declan.
No - I agree. The decision to join a union is an entirely personal one, and if you chose not to be a member of a union, and chose to go to work as normal, and do your normal job then I have a significant level of sympathy.
Similarly I have a great deal of time for non-union members - especially freelance workers who are in a particularly vulnerable situation - who felt unable to cross a picket line and didn't turn up for work.
Quote:
But those who come in to deliberately undermine their colleagues simply to try to ingratiate themselves with management and to make a fast buck, are frankly not very nice people.
Yes - though I don't think any of the presenters who worked on the News 24 sustaining service yesterday did themselves any favours. They were some of the weaker presenters the channel has - and I suspect not that popular with their colleagues before yesterday (so had less to lose by crossing a picket line) I don't think many viewers will have been wowed by their previously less well-known presenting skills...
Widening the debate - I think that there is a still a degree of ignorance as to why the unions are striking. This is one of the first strikes I can remember at the BBC that wasn't about pay.
There are a number of issues - and I'm not sure that they have been clearly explained by anyone.
There are the issues of redundancies - the people the BBC management have decided they no longer require within the organisation. This is the most widely reported issue.
However the "outsourcing" and "sell off" issue has been less well-reported. This covers the moving of services provided internally by the BBC currently, by BBC employees, to outside companies, with some current BBC employees expected to move to the new companies. However these new companies have only limited responsibilities to match the BBC conditions of service in areas like pensions etc. If you had worked for the BBC for 25 years (in many cases not taking higher paid jobs elsewhere), on the basis that you were committed to the BBC, and stayed because of a good final salary pension scheme etc., you can imagine your anger when you are told that your job is staying, but you'll have to work for Siemens, or some other company, with a totally different (and probably not as good) pension plan...
This issue is also related to areas like the sell-off of BBC Resourced and BBC Broadcast. There are a LOT of people in both these areas who work there because they want to work for the BBC - again often taking a pay-cut to work there because they are committed to the corporation. To be told your job has been sold off to a third-party, profit-making, non-public service operation, and that you will no longer be working for the BBC (it is likely that these services, once sold off, will no longer be BBC branded) is also a real issue to many.
Add to that programmes that are already running on highly-efficient staffing models, with no slack at all, to be told they have to match the same efficiencies as other programmes which have acres of excess and over-staffing, with no consideration on an individual level is very galling. Some programme areas may well be able to cut back by 15% quite easily, others have already been cut, and cut, and cut, and cut... The seeming lack of discussion over these "efficiency savings" is a real problem for many, very moderate, employees.
And then don't get people started on the BBC finding £500 million for Manchester...
EY
"Dunedin" is the ancient name of Edinburgh, from where I post this message to you.
At first I thought you might be from new zealand.
Yes, but that would be 'Eden' not 'Edin', wouldn't it.
No, Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand, is spelt correctly.
Eden not Edin.
and I live 110km north of Dunedin in New Zealand called Oamaru!!! yay Population 15,320
On the topic is Stephen Cole a bossy person Marcus? He doesnt seem like one although he does remind me of an old teacher I had who was on the rude side.
dodrade posted:
cat posted:
dodrade posted:
Dunedin posted:
"Dunedin" is the ancient name of Edinburgh, from where I post this message to you.
At first I thought you might be from new zealand.
Yes, but that would be 'Eden' not 'Edin', wouldn't it.
No, Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand, is spelt correctly.
Eden not Edin.
and I live 110km north of Dunedin in New Zealand called Oamaru!!! yay Population 15,320
On the topic is Stephen Cole a bossy person Marcus? He doesnt seem like one although he does remind me of an old teacher I had who was on the rude side.
IT
"Dunedin" is the ancient name of Edinburgh, from where I post this message to you.
At first I thought you might be from new zealand.
Yes, but that would be 'Eden' not 'Edin', wouldn't it.
No, Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand, is spelt correctly.
Eden not Edin.
and I live 110km north of Dunedin in New Zealand called Oamaru!!! yay Population 15,320
On the topic is Stephen Cole a bossy person Marcus? He doesnt seem like one although he does remind me of an old teacher I had who was on the rude side.
When people are on camera, they are a lot different to when they are their normal selves. Don't be fooled! There only seems to be a handful that are genuine both on and off camera.
itsrobert
Founding member
bbcworld2005 posted:
dodrade posted:
cat posted:
dodrade posted:
Dunedin posted:
"Dunedin" is the ancient name of Edinburgh, from where I post this message to you.
At first I thought you might be from new zealand.
Yes, but that would be 'Eden' not 'Edin', wouldn't it.
No, Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand, is spelt correctly.
Eden not Edin.
and I live 110km north of Dunedin in New Zealand called Oamaru!!! yay Population 15,320
On the topic is Stephen Cole a bossy person Marcus? He doesnt seem like one although he does remind me of an old teacher I had who was on the rude side.
When people are on camera, they are a lot different to when they are their normal selves. Don't be fooled! There only seems to be a handful that are genuine both on and off camera.
MA
When people are on camera, they are a lot different to when they are their normal selves. Don't be fooled! There only seems to be a handful that are genuine both on and off camera.
Nastasha been an excellent example at the BAFTA awards, some technicians left the mics up and she had a little fit over make - up etc, before been little miss perfect when the lights came back...
itsrobert posted:
When people are on camera, they are a lot different to when they are their normal selves. Don't be fooled! There only seems to be a handful that are genuine both on and off camera.
Nastasha been an excellent example at the BAFTA awards, some technicians left the mics up and she had a little fit over make - up etc, before been little miss perfect when the lights came back...
HC
Whilst I fully understand why the strikes are going ahead, and I fully support those that man the picketlines, stay at home, or take a 'tactical' day off - more of a worry to those who went on strike yesterday would be how most of your average viewers would not have noticed any real difference (apart from a new newsreader or how 'the background is different today') in the output of the 6 and 10 o'clock news.
The paradox in all this, is that whilst the job cuts appear to be aimed at BBC Resources/Broadcast there is also going to be a cull in numbers across the organization and we can expect a small proportion of these to be made in the numbers of managers in BBC News -
it was exactly these same managers that kept the news machine working yesterday and provided a reasonable service to the viewing public. The unions want them saved, and the BBC want them out
Catch 22, anyone?
The paradox in all this, is that whilst the job cuts appear to be aimed at BBC Resources/Broadcast there is also going to be a cull in numbers across the organization and we can expect a small proportion of these to be made in the numbers of managers in BBC News -
it was exactly these same managers that kept the news machine working yesterday and provided a reasonable service to the viewing public. The unions want them saved, and the BBC want them out
Catch 22, anyone?
BN
Media Guardian says that the Ten had 200k more viewers than normal.
Plus apparently Stephen Cole fancied himself as a movie star
Plus apparently Stephen Cole fancied himself as a movie star