NG
Sorry, slightly badly worded there. What I was trying to say was in a proper OB shoot you (should) have someone back in the truck monitoring the signals and adjusting the CCUs. With a single camera shoot it is up to the camera operator to get it right first time on their own, which can be difficult in a tiny monochrome viewfinder.
Yep - that is what zebras are for in exposure terms - though they don't help with colour balancing on PSC/ENG stuff. Having said that - people have been shooting ENG/EFP to portable VTRs using monochrome monocular viewfinders since the mid-to-late 70s and early 80s (when UMatic and portable 1" VTRs became feasible and lightweight battery powerable cameras like the Ike HL79D and Sony BVP 330 became available) You DO have to know what you are doing - particularly when it comes to shooting stuff with the right colour balance settings when you only have a B&W viewfinder - and without proper training and experience it is very easy to get it wrong.
There is also a "shortcut culture" that develops when people who don't have craft skills as their primary skillset are asked to do stuff of a craft nature.
With single camera stuff it is much easier in some ways - as you are shooting everything on the same camera - so at least it matches. In a studio you have to ensure the cameras are racked so that they match each other.
While you don't have to worry about matching in a single camera shoot, you still need to make sure you are still getting a good picture. I've seen more examples of burned out pictures from single camera shoots than I have from a studio.
Yep - I was talking about matching (i.e. colour balance) not exposure. There is no real excuse for poorly exposed single camera stuff if you have zebras and know what they mean (and what value they're set at)
And the only example of a seriously under exposed shot where a neutral density filter was left in place after shooting outside!
Let me guess - they cranked up the brightness of the viewfinder rather than sorting the camera exposure out? Or was the camera locked off and not being operated at all?
This mess is then brought back to a poor SM to fix afterwards, who can't because the detail has been lost and cannot be restored. These sorts of things would never happen in a studio because there are other people looking at the picture on proper monitors who can see it is wrong.
Yep - but it shouldn't happen on single camera shoots if the person doing the camera knows what they are doing. That is the kind of stuff covered on the very basic 1/2 day or 1 day MiniDV training course.
I disagree. In the very small studios we have in Bush the gallery is run by 3 people.
3 people - that is more than many regional studios (and more than some productions at TVC!)
One on sound mix, one on vision mix and a director.
Ah - it is common in regions (and at TVC) for the director to vision mix. So the basic 3 person crew would be sound, TM/lights/rack and dir/vision mix, dropping to sound/TM and dir/vision mix if 2 people running the show.
You physically cannot fit anymore people in there. The vision mixer and director will share playing inserts from the Fork/Omneon system and driving the Clarity (Aston) generator.
Yep - like most regions. Not at all unusual to Dir/VM/Aston (even before automation) - and in some regions you also add sound mixing and still store playout to that mix.
The waveform monitoring is done by an Omnitek system on a KVM switch with the Clarity - so you cannot see the waveforms while playing out graphics even if you are trained to use it.
Ah - that's poor layout. Most areas I've seen - that are too cheap to have a decent Waveform monitor and Vectorscope - use Hamlet in-vision models that can be toggled over a vision preview monitor (even mixer PST) so that you can see what is going on. Some have a semi-transparent option so you can see both waveform and vector half mixed over the source routed to the monitor - pretty similar to the separate vision monitor + waveform monitor combo usually used in a vision position, but much smaller.
That said - if the set is lit properly you shouldn't have to do too much unless your close-up cameras are switching between guests with very different skin tones.
Lighting is a series of preset buttons in each studio, so no LD required.
That'll be the problem. That'll be fine for locked off links positions - but if you want to do interviews you need to be able to balance keys - which requires faders. You don't need a big desk and a complex plot - but you do need to be able to do the basic stuff like set keys so that faces are the same brightness on a wide shot, and then you don't have to do much racking dynamically - unless you have guests with very different skin tones.
Oh, and due to the space constraints the monitors are all 'broadcast' LCD which are a couple of years old now. While the big Vutrix monitors are very good the smaller Sony monitors are less so, picture variations between the Sony monitors are often caused by being off axis - so racking by eye can be a bit hit and miss depending on where you stand in the limited space.
If you are racking by eye you should only do it from a single monitor that you switch the inputs to (ideally pressing down on the RCP joystick should switch that camera to the racking preview monitor) and if you are using an LCD you have to be front on.
Most new galleries now are either LCD or Plasma/Projector multiview based (the former are marginally better for lipsync) - though until very recently most had a glass monitor for lighting - as LCDs are only just approaching decent quality for racking off.
Sounds like the stack is a lot better than many - I've worked in areas where the stack was a bank of 14" TVs... Fortunately they actually matched each other quite well - though were a totally different colourimetry to the main mixer out Ikegami Grade 2 monitor.
In this environment having the zebra on is useful, because it gives a very clear message to the camera operator that the exposure is wrong, who can then get on the talkback to the gallery.
Sounds like this might be a case for running multicamera ENG and letting the camera guys set their own exposure if there is a camera op per camera. That isn't uncommon on low budget operations. No point having RCPs if there is nobody who can do anything useful with them at the other end.
In fact running the cameras in "Manual + Auto" mode - where you have manual control but the auto iris circuits have a bit of latitude to tweak - might be a good idea.
I agree in a larger studio there is no point, but that does not hold true for all studios.
If you have someone racking - then you don't need zebras. If you don't have someone racking - and it sounds as if you don't if you can't see a waveform monitor and can't concentrate on it - then you probably do. But then you are working more multi-camera ENG if that is the case.
noggin
Founding member
Bvsh Hovse posted:
noggin posted:
You can't - technically - rack something once it has been shot. Racking works prior to the generation of the video signal - so ensures the full signal capacity (i.e. all the bits) containg accurate video information.
Sorry, slightly badly worded there. What I was trying to say was in a proper OB shoot you (should) have someone back in the truck monitoring the signals and adjusting the CCUs. With a single camera shoot it is up to the camera operator to get it right first time on their own, which can be difficult in a tiny monochrome viewfinder.
Yep - that is what zebras are for in exposure terms - though they don't help with colour balancing on PSC/ENG stuff. Having said that - people have been shooting ENG/EFP to portable VTRs using monochrome monocular viewfinders since the mid-to-late 70s and early 80s (when UMatic and portable 1" VTRs became feasible and lightweight battery powerable cameras like the Ike HL79D and Sony BVP 330 became available) You DO have to know what you are doing - particularly when it comes to shooting stuff with the right colour balance settings when you only have a B&W viewfinder - and without proper training and experience it is very easy to get it wrong.
There is also a "shortcut culture" that develops when people who don't have craft skills as their primary skillset are asked to do stuff of a craft nature.
Quote:
noggin posted:
bvsh hovse posted:
Since outdoor light levels can go all over the place in the space of a minute I would give the benefit of the doubt. But inside a controlled studio environment there is NO excuse.
With single camera stuff it is much easier in some ways - as you are shooting everything on the same camera - so at least it matches. In a studio you have to ensure the cameras are racked so that they match each other.
While you don't have to worry about matching in a single camera shoot, you still need to make sure you are still getting a good picture. I've seen more examples of burned out pictures from single camera shoots than I have from a studio.
Yep - I was talking about matching (i.e. colour balance) not exposure. There is no real excuse for poorly exposed single camera stuff if you have zebras and know what they mean (and what value they're set at)
Quote:
And the only example of a seriously under exposed shot where a neutral density filter was left in place after shooting outside!
Let me guess - they cranked up the brightness of the viewfinder rather than sorting the camera exposure out? Or was the camera locked off and not being operated at all?
Quote:
This mess is then brought back to a poor SM to fix afterwards, who can't because the detail has been lost and cannot be restored. These sorts of things would never happen in a studio because there are other people looking at the picture on proper monitors who can see it is wrong.
Yep - but it shouldn't happen on single camera shoots if the person doing the camera knows what they are doing. That is the kind of stuff covered on the very basic 1/2 day or 1 day MiniDV training course.
Quote:
noggin posted:
Zebras are irrelevant in a studio - the camera operator on the floor (if there is one) doesn't rack the cameras or do anything other than frame and focus.
I disagree. In the very small studios we have in Bush the gallery is run by 3 people.
3 people - that is more than many regional studios (and more than some productions at TVC!)
Quote:
One on sound mix, one on vision mix and a director.
Ah - it is common in regions (and at TVC) for the director to vision mix. So the basic 3 person crew would be sound, TM/lights/rack and dir/vision mix, dropping to sound/TM and dir/vision mix if 2 people running the show.
Quote:
You physically cannot fit anymore people in there. The vision mixer and director will share playing inserts from the Fork/Omneon system and driving the Clarity (Aston) generator.
Yep - like most regions. Not at all unusual to Dir/VM/Aston (even before automation) - and in some regions you also add sound mixing and still store playout to that mix.
Quote:
The waveform monitoring is done by an Omnitek system on a KVM switch with the Clarity - so you cannot see the waveforms while playing out graphics even if you are trained to use it.
Ah - that's poor layout. Most areas I've seen - that are too cheap to have a decent Waveform monitor and Vectorscope - use Hamlet in-vision models that can be toggled over a vision preview monitor (even mixer PST) so that you can see what is going on. Some have a semi-transparent option so you can see both waveform and vector half mixed over the source routed to the monitor - pretty similar to the separate vision monitor + waveform monitor combo usually used in a vision position, but much smaller.
That said - if the set is lit properly you shouldn't have to do too much unless your close-up cameras are switching between guests with very different skin tones.
Quote:
Lighting is a series of preset buttons in each studio, so no LD required.
That'll be the problem. That'll be fine for locked off links positions - but if you want to do interviews you need to be able to balance keys - which requires faders. You don't need a big desk and a complex plot - but you do need to be able to do the basic stuff like set keys so that faces are the same brightness on a wide shot, and then you don't have to do much racking dynamically - unless you have guests with very different skin tones.
Quote:
Oh, and due to the space constraints the monitors are all 'broadcast' LCD which are a couple of years old now. While the big Vutrix monitors are very good the smaller Sony monitors are less so, picture variations between the Sony monitors are often caused by being off axis - so racking by eye can be a bit hit and miss depending on where you stand in the limited space.
If you are racking by eye you should only do it from a single monitor that you switch the inputs to (ideally pressing down on the RCP joystick should switch that camera to the racking preview monitor) and if you are using an LCD you have to be front on.
Most new galleries now are either LCD or Plasma/Projector multiview based (the former are marginally better for lipsync) - though until very recently most had a glass monitor for lighting - as LCDs are only just approaching decent quality for racking off.
Sounds like the stack is a lot better than many - I've worked in areas where the stack was a bank of 14" TVs... Fortunately they actually matched each other quite well - though were a totally different colourimetry to the main mixer out Ikegami Grade 2 monitor.
Quote:
In this environment having the zebra on is useful, because it gives a very clear message to the camera operator that the exposure is wrong, who can then get on the talkback to the gallery.
Sounds like this might be a case for running multicamera ENG and letting the camera guys set their own exposure if there is a camera op per camera. That isn't uncommon on low budget operations. No point having RCPs if there is nobody who can do anything useful with them at the other end.
In fact running the cameras in "Manual + Auto" mode - where you have manual control but the auto iris circuits have a bit of latitude to tweak - might be a good idea.
Quote:
I agree in a larger studio there is no point, but that does not hold true for all studios.
If you have someone racking - then you don't need zebras. If you don't have someone racking - and it sounds as if you don't if you can't see a waveform monitor and can't concentrate on it - then you probably do. But then you are working more multi-camera ENG if that is the case.
