NG
Not in its current form. The studio is a tiny broomcupboard CSO (where the presenter does their own lighting, camera set-up, CSO and autocue), and the gallery contains just a VT machine and a tiny sound and vision mixer enough to do the 60 Seconds BBC Three bulletins. The interactive stuff is done entirely by pre-recording links ,and VTs, and playing them out automatically.
The set-up they have is worse than any regional Breakfast/Presentation operation - even those dating back to the late 80s...
noggin
Founding member
dosxuk posted:
Just remembered that myself while cooking dinner (get me!), that couldn't N24 decamp to the interactive studio for the 30 minutes if they needed to break off the simulcast?
Not in its current form. The studio is a tiny broomcupboard CSO (where the presenter does their own lighting, camera set-up, CSO and autocue), and the gallery contains just a VT machine and a tiny sound and vision mixer enough to do the 60 Seconds BBC Three bulletins. The interactive stuff is done entirely by pre-recording links ,and VTs, and playing them out automatically.
The set-up they have is worse than any regional Breakfast/Presentation operation - even those dating back to the late 80s...
NG
Not at all - Nationals wouldn't take a long continous press conference on a developing story and instead would watch it and turn some of it round for the end of their bulletin. However News 24 would traditionally have not taken the One o'clock News and would have carried the presser instead.
You simply CAN'T just route a live picture source to line - you have to have a presenter in-vision available - to not be able to get off a live feed is editorially unacceptable. (What if the content becomes unbroadcastable? What if the feed disappears, the link breaks, the sat truck generator falls over, the camera at the OB needs a battery change etc.)
You have to have a gallery that can cope with this - and that is not an insignificant requirement. (You'd need a minimum of 3 OS lines, 2 or 3 server lines, a camera, a graphic source of some sort, and ideally the ability to take phone calls to air. Effectively a single camera version of most regional galleries...)
Otherwise N24 could take the nationals feed, headlines and other major stories until at least the mid point summary before breaking away.
But what would they break away to - where would this be co-ordinated from?
As I said the other day in the 're-brand' thread, a small second facility would be helpful. Provide a minimum of equipment that still allows N24 to opt out. A camera in the newsroom with stand up position to enable a head+shoulders shot. Do you really need to be able to take phone calls?
Yes - imagine the plane crash today. News 24 go into rolling mode - and the first contributions you get are on the phone. If you are going to split away from BBC One, then you have to be able to deliver a service that is at least basically acceptable. To not be able to put the source of almost all first breaking news reports on-air is pretty poor.
If so, share that with the main gallery - admittedly you can't do different things at the same time, but it's fairly unlikely you'd want to.
As you wouldn't be staffed for both galleries the second one would be running on a skeleton production and technical team. Opting in and out dynamically would be a nightmare - and a car crash to watch.
With the amount of equipment being replaced, most that would be needed for a tiny operation should be able to be reclaimed - it can't all be in that bad a condition.
I don't think you understand how live TV works I'm afraid... You'd need two separate galleries - and the kit is being replaced for a reason. It is getting old and unsupportable - i.e. it costs too much to keep it working reliably.
The amount you need isn't tiny - it is probably about 50% of the current gallery - and actually a lot of the kit isn't re-usable. You don't get a small gallery by taking half the kit out of a big gallery - you buy smaller kit...
There would already be someone looking after graphics, well, provided they keep the ticker on the N24 feed while simucasting.
I would assume the producer / director of the nationals will not also produce / direct N24, freeing up the normal people for the duration of the simulcast.
The editorial team, production team and technical teams will, I assume, rotate throughout the day. But this doesn't mean they have enough staff available to duplicate even for 30 minutes - particularly if it happened regularly.
Chances are that the people who are coming off-air before the One, will be working on preparing the next chunk of output. If they are then deployed to work on an opt-out, you end up with nothing left...
They should be able to op a tiny gallery with one presenter for up to 30 minutes.
Suspect you don't realise quite how tight things are getting at TV Centre...
noggin
Founding member
dosxuk posted:
Chances are though, if it's a sufficiently major (and developed) story to leave on live external pictures for 30 minutes, the nationals will be looking to take it to.
Not at all - Nationals wouldn't take a long continous press conference on a developing story and instead would watch it and turn some of it round for the end of their bulletin. However News 24 would traditionally have not taken the One o'clock News and would have carried the presser instead.
You simply CAN'T just route a live picture source to line - you have to have a presenter in-vision available - to not be able to get off a live feed is editorially unacceptable. (What if the content becomes unbroadcastable? What if the feed disappears, the link breaks, the sat truck generator falls over, the camera at the OB needs a battery change etc.)
You have to have a gallery that can cope with this - and that is not an insignificant requirement. (You'd need a minimum of 3 OS lines, 2 or 3 server lines, a camera, a graphic source of some sort, and ideally the ability to take phone calls to air. Effectively a single camera version of most regional galleries...)
Quote:
Otherwise N24 could take the nationals feed, headlines and other major stories until at least the mid point summary before breaking away.
But what would they break away to - where would this be co-ordinated from?
Quote:
As I said the other day in the 're-brand' thread, a small second facility would be helpful. Provide a minimum of equipment that still allows N24 to opt out. A camera in the newsroom with stand up position to enable a head+shoulders shot. Do you really need to be able to take phone calls?
Yes - imagine the plane crash today. News 24 go into rolling mode - and the first contributions you get are on the phone. If you are going to split away from BBC One, then you have to be able to deliver a service that is at least basically acceptable. To not be able to put the source of almost all first breaking news reports on-air is pretty poor.
Quote:
If so, share that with the main gallery - admittedly you can't do different things at the same time, but it's fairly unlikely you'd want to.
As you wouldn't be staffed for both galleries the second one would be running on a skeleton production and technical team. Opting in and out dynamically would be a nightmare - and a car crash to watch.
Quote:
With the amount of equipment being replaced, most that would be needed for a tiny operation should be able to be reclaimed - it can't all be in that bad a condition.
I don't think you understand how live TV works I'm afraid... You'd need two separate galleries - and the kit is being replaced for a reason. It is getting old and unsupportable - i.e. it costs too much to keep it working reliably.
The amount you need isn't tiny - it is probably about 50% of the current gallery - and actually a lot of the kit isn't re-usable. You don't get a small gallery by taking half the kit out of a big gallery - you buy smaller kit...
Quote:
There would already be someone looking after graphics, well, provided they keep the ticker on the N24 feed while simucasting.
I would assume the producer / director of the nationals will not also produce / direct N24, freeing up the normal people for the duration of the simulcast.
The editorial team, production team and technical teams will, I assume, rotate throughout the day. But this doesn't mean they have enough staff available to duplicate even for 30 minutes - particularly if it happened regularly.
Chances are that the people who are coming off-air before the One, will be working on preparing the next chunk of output. If they are then deployed to work on an opt-out, you end up with nothing left...
Quote:
They should be able to op a tiny gallery with one presenter for up to 30 minutes.
Suspect you don't realise quite how tight things are getting at TV Centre...
DO
Why does this have to be to an in-vision presenter? How about the old favourites, a map, or still photo of something relevant?
You have to have a gallery that can cope with this [/quote]
Agreed
4 input mixer, matrix routable sources from the 8 sources there. Share resources with the main gallery, and utilise what's available.
Share it with the main gallery - they could route the phone audio to the mini gallery. Live phone calls are fairly unusual on the nationals, but the kit will need to be there for N24, so let them use it.
With two galleries controlled by the same production team with direct communication this should not be a problem.
99% of my broadcast experience is with live TV, been involved with it since I was 8, worked on it since 16. But, none of this is with the BBC, and I'm aware that they like to do things differently to the commercial world. Currently some of my main work is developing software to automate audio and video routing so I'm well aware of what's possible in that aspect too.
As I said myself.
So, none of the monitors, UMDs, matrix panels, comms panels, goosenecks, script lights, tables & chairs (!), monitor speakers, patch panels, power distribution or cabling is reusable?! If so, congratulations needs to be passed to N24 for keeping the thing running at all!
Yeah, you'd need a new sound mixer, vision mixer and probably camera + control gear, but there is no way I can believe that between the entire BBC News operation they couldn't find some working bits to put together a small gallery. Thing is, at the end of the day, it only needs to work for a maximum of 2 hours a day for the next 4 years (ish), and that's if there is non stop breaking news everyday till the move to Broadcasting House.
I would imagine this to be very true. Thanks for your responses, it's very informative. I don't have enough experience to know the answers for myself, but I do have enough knowledge to want to question why.
noggin posted:
you have to have a presenter in-vision available - to not be able to get off a live feed is editorially unacceptable.
Why does this have to be to an in-vision presenter? How about the old favourites, a map, or still photo of something relevant?
You have to have a gallery that can cope with this [/quote]
Agreed
noggin posted:
You'd need a minimum of 3 OS lines, 2 or 3 server lines, a camera, a graphic source of some sort, and ideally the ability to take phone calls to air.
4 input mixer, matrix routable sources from the 8 sources there. Share resources with the main gallery, and utilise what's available.
noggin posted:
Yes - imagine the plane crash today. News 24 go into rolling mode - and the first contributions you get are on the phone. If you are going to split away from BBC One, then you have to be able to deliver a service that is at least basically acceptable. To not be able to put the source of almost all first breaking news reports on-air is pretty poor.
Share it with the main gallery - they could route the phone audio to the mini gallery. Live phone calls are fairly unusual on the nationals, but the kit will need to be there for N24, so let them use it.
noggin posted:
Opting in and out dynamically would be a nightmare - and a car crash to watch.
With two galleries controlled by the same production team with direct communication this should not be a problem.
noggin posted:
I don't think you understand how live TV works I'm afraid...
99% of my broadcast experience is with live TV, been involved with it since I was 8, worked on it since 16. But, none of this is with the BBC, and I'm aware that they like to do things differently to the commercial world. Currently some of my main work is developing software to automate audio and video routing so I'm well aware of what's possible in that aspect too.
noggin posted:
You'd need two separate galleries
As I said myself.
noggin posted:
The amount you need isn't tiny - it is probably about 50% of the current gallery - and actually a lot of the kit isn't re-usable.
So, none of the monitors, UMDs, matrix panels, comms panels, goosenecks, script lights, tables & chairs (!), monitor speakers, patch panels, power distribution or cabling is reusable?! If so, congratulations needs to be passed to N24 for keeping the thing running at all!
Yeah, you'd need a new sound mixer, vision mixer and probably camera + control gear, but there is no way I can believe that between the entire BBC News operation they couldn't find some working bits to put together a small gallery. Thing is, at the end of the day, it only needs to work for a maximum of 2 hours a day for the next 4 years (ish), and that's if there is non stop breaking news everyday till the move to Broadcasting House.
noggin posted:
Suspect you don't realise quite how tight things are getting at TV Centre...
I would imagine this to be very true. Thanks for your responses, it's very informative. I don't have enough experience to know the answers for myself, but I do have enough knowledge to want to question why.
GI
If the gallery required to run a breaking news operation would be the equivalent of a regional studio, why not use a regional studio? Bump London out of their studio and ask the National presenter to read the London news, or at least the first item - i.e. London doesn't opt out and stays with the National presenter who reads the first story (with headlines if you want to be ambitious), then opts out to play the report. By this stage N24 is playing a report / weather / trailers that allow it to switch back to N6 fairly smoothly. Yes it would be messy but when you have an incident the size of a plane crash landing at Heathrow you cannot afford for N24 not to be covering it.
What is the situation with the Westminster studio - is it still operational? That could be a handy get out of jail card, stick a political correspondent on as presenter and get a few lines from TVC. Again technically it would hardly be a brilliant broadcast with the director and editor barking down the phone to inexperienced ops from TVC but at least its something.
What is the situation with the Westminster studio - is it still operational? That could be a handy get out of jail card, stick a political correspondent on as presenter and get a few lines from TVC. Again technically it would hardly be a brilliant broadcast with the director and editor barking down the phone to inexperienced ops from TVC but at least its something.
TV
Well joining World will be the only quick option for News24. That of course relies on the fact that world is covering the story. They were yesterday, but a major domestic story, say Peter Hain resigns, would not be covered on World at all.
Who will there be to staff it. BBC news is making hundreds of staff redundant. It simply does not have people sitting around in regions who can leap into action in a split second to provide a rolling news service.
seamus posted:
Wouldn't a good solution for major breaking news be to simulcast World, like overnights, where there is a somewhat more UK oriented agenda?
Well joining World will be the only quick option for News24. That of course relies on the fact that world is covering the story. They were yesterday, but a major domestic story, say Peter Hain resigns, would not be covered on World at all.
gilsta posted:
If the gallery required to run a breaking news operation would be the equivalent of a regional studio, why not use a regional studio? Bump London out of their studio and ask the National presenter to read the London news, or at least the first item - i.e. London doesn't opt out and stays with the National presenter who reads the first story (with headlines if you want to be ambitious), then opts out to play the report. By this stage N24 is playing a report / weather / trailers that allow it to switch back to N6 fairly smoothly. Yes it would be messy but when you have an incident the size of a plane crash landing at Heathrow you cannot afford for N24 not to be covering it.
What is the situation with the Westminster studio - is it still operational? That could be a handy get out of jail card, stick a political correspondent on as presenter and get a few lines from TVC. Again technically it would hardly be a brilliant broadcast with the director and editor barking down the phone to inexperienced ops from TVC but at least its something.
What is the situation with the Westminster studio - is it still operational? That could be a handy get out of jail card, stick a political correspondent on as presenter and get a few lines from TVC. Again technically it would hardly be a brilliant broadcast with the director and editor barking down the phone to inexperienced ops from TVC but at least its something.
Who will there be to staff it. BBC news is making hundreds of staff redundant. It simply does not have people sitting around in regions who can leap into action in a split second to provide a rolling news service.
GI
I'm assuming there'd be a N24 producer and editor waiting to take over in N6 after the simulcast ended, so give them a couple of minutes to get everything rolling and use the regional crew in the studio. I know it would be pandemonium in the gallery but such is the nature of the beast.
archiveTV posted:
Who will there be to staff it. BBC news is making hundreds of staff redundant. It simply does not have people sitting around in regions who can leap into action in a split second to provide a rolling news service.
I'm assuming there'd be a N24 producer and editor waiting to take over in N6 after the simulcast ended, so give them a couple of minutes to get everything rolling and use the regional crew in the studio. I know it would be pandemonium in the gallery but such is the nature of the beast.
SP
That London studio at the other side of the city (Marylebone High Street)?
gilsta posted:
Bump London out of their studio and ask the National presenter to read the London news, or at least the first item - i.e. London doesn't opt out and stays with the National presenter who reads the first story (with headlines if you want to be ambitious), then opts out to play the report.
That London studio at the other side of the city (Marylebone High Street)?