The Newsroom

BBC News Channel: Presentation

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DS
Dan S
AxG posted:
I think BBC News is seriously due a refresh. Not a complete revamp, just a few tweaks here and there to the background, the aston style and maybe the ticker.

Anyone agree?


I'd rather they went back to the pre 2008 graphics, looked much better. Getting rid of Gill Sans, and back to the previous font.


I agree, I don't know whether it's the white text on grey ticker, the font, the white astons, the white titles or what but the whole channel just feels so bland. Fair enough, the channel generally does what it's supposed to, deliver news, but in presentation terms, the whole thing's just dire. The schedule itself, however, is very straight and reliable ie. we know what times to expect sport and business etc, and on which days, and most of the presenters, such as Jon Sopel and Jane Hill, are very capable and experienced, but it just needs to be presented in a more 'approachable' way, as was the case in the 2003-07 and 07-08 incarnations of BBC News 24.
BB
BBC LDN
And yet, despite being so bland and 'unapproachable', its ratings have only increased over the last two years, and remains infinitely more popular than Sky News, or the international news channels available in the UK. During major breaking news events, the majority of viewers turn to the BBC News Channel over other outlets, even excluding any simulcasting considerations such as when BBC NC is shown on BBC One.

These facts don't present a particularly compelling argument for making the kinds of changes that you seem to think are so urgently required.

I don't think that the current graphics package is especially attractive either, for what it's worth - but it is very functional and gets the job done without being needlessly distracting and 'in your face'. I don't think that the majority of viewers view this as being a problem, nor do I imagine that many viewers would list "awesome graphics" as being one of their primary reasons for choosing a particular news outlet.
DV
DVB Cornwall
No major changes needed at all until the BH move, maybe some cosmetic changes to the countdown to reflect new roles for reporters and that's it.
DF
DrewF
I think even changing the newsroom backdrop on the Barcos to one more similar to the refurbed regions, and making better use of N6, like standing up at the TOTH, using more graphics etc. would make a huge difference to the appearance of the channel.

And perhaps using the intro camera pan a little better, it looks good but it often ends up at a terrible angle - although not usually as bad as this disaster a couple of years ago (courtesy of The TV Room Plus):

http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-f/f-083/main-003-19.jpg
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-f/f-083/main-003-20.jpg
DV
DVB Cornwall
Can someone please explain simply and straighforwardly why people want news presenters to stand? To me it's nothing short of pretentious rubbish and adds nothing whatsoever to the content of the news, it adds to the complexity of the opening shot/sequence without gaining anything.
DS
Dan S
Can someone please explain simply and straighforwardly why people want news presenters to stand? To me it's nothing short of pretentious rubbish and adds nothing whatsoever to the content of the news, it adds to the complexity of the opening shot/sequence without gaining anything.


Compare and contrast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Hr1z3w4hM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9YYKE-ByY0

I don't receive BBC World News but even I have to say the first clip looks more innovative than the second clip
DV
DVB Cornwall
You've got two people standing up in the first, whereas in the second, it's down to business immediately. Does nothing for me whatsoever, as I said pretentious.
WO
Worzel
I think BBC News is seriously due a refresh. Not a complete revamp, just a few tweaks here and there to the background, the aston style and maybe the ticker.

Anyone agree?


I wholeheartedly agree.

All it needs is a refresh - not a full revamp. Perhaps a slightly better backdrop (maybe a version of the one BBC Breakfast uses), that looks really nice on the Barco's in N6 on a weekend. Graphics, bring back the swiss font and give the Astons and DOG a glassy effect, its all they need to make them look a bit fresher on screen.

As for standing up, it really could and should be done. If it looked really bad on screen, BBC World News wouldn't do it and the BBC News at Six and Ten wouldn't do it either. I'm not saying that 'because everyone else does it, it should be done' (except Euronews of course), but it does look visually better on screen. I cannot see how one or even both the presenters standing by the far Barco wall, where the sport comes from - with a picture/image on them (which they already do) is going to make the TOTH more difficult? They use the wide shot of the studio - perhaps one presenter at the desk and the other at the wall, and cut to the presenter at the wall first.

IIRC In the Lambert report - conducted in 2003, weren't the beeb told that BBC News 24 needed to find different and more innovative ways to present the news. Now, they did do this for a while - as these clips show... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fNjNGI4GA4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrDNDQwzPhQ (As you can see News 24 did do stand up TOTH's during 9am-4pm).

Other things that could have a possitive impact... Presenting the weather from the Barco's more frequently - this only ever seems to happen at 5pm. Also, now and again putting the main image of the story that is being talked about - behind the presenters, this does have a good effect but is barely done. Like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJQXHgIcdOs

The reasons why I think things aren't done on the news channel. Maybe their worried that they'll get complaints from viewers - well, my reaction to this is if its only a handful of people who complain - the rest of the population are most probably happy with it. The thing is... the BBC News channel hasn't tried it (unless you count News 24 in 2003), and some may say 'it doesn't make a difference if the presenter stands' - but maybe it does. Perhaps also, the news channel presenters don't get a trouser allowance. Wink Embarassed

I really think that a 'viewer panel' would be really effective for the news channel and BBC News as a whole. Yes we have newswatch but a viewer panel would also be constructive. Comprising of 10-15 people that meet every couple of months to discuss with editors how the channel could improve... this would be a very positive step. It is a public service broadcaster after all.

In conclusion, I'm not saying that the BBC News channel needs to 'be like Sky News' - far from it... but a bit of innovation never went a miss. Look at cars, if they hadn't evolved we would never of ended up with electronic ignition, power steering etc.
Last edited by Worzel on 22 November 2010 6:30pm - 3 times in total
CH
chris
I was willing to put money on an essay from Worzel appearing in this thread after standing up was mentioned. Wish I had now...
BB
BBC LDN
I think BBC News is seriously due a refresh. Not a complete revamp, just a few tweaks here and there to the background, the aston style and maybe the ticker.

Anyone agree?


I wholeheartedly agree.

All it needs is a refresh - not a full revamp. Perhaps a slightly better backdrop (maybe a version of the one BBC Breakfast uses), that looks really nice on the Barco's in N6 on a weekend. Graphics, bring back the swiss font and give the Astons and DOG a glassy effect, its all they need to make them look a bit fresher on screen.


There's no 'need' for these elements. At a time when all public expenditure is under public scrutiny - and after two years of particularly intense scrutiny of BBC spending - the BBC must be careful to avoid spending where it is unnecessary, or where to spend may present an easy target for criticism. The fact that the current graphics set is only two and a half years old - and more importantly, that it does the job of being functional, legible and reasonably unobtrusive - does not make a good case for making the changes that you claim are 'needed'.

Yes, from a presentation enthusiast's point of view, it would be nice to have much more regularly refreshes, but the BBC exists in the real world, and real world considerations must be made when making these decisions.

When all BBC departments are trimming budgets by 10-20% (varying according to how these savings are being recorded and accounted for), this kind of spending makes no sense.

As for standing up, it really could and should be done. If it looked really bad on screen, BBC World News wouldn't do it and the BBC News at Six and Ten wouldn't do it either. I'm not saying that 'because everyone else does it, it should be done' (except Euronews of course), but it does look visually better on screen. I cannot see how one or even both the presenters standing by the far Barco wall, where the sport comes from - with a picture/image on them (which they already do) is going to make the TOTH more difficult? They use the wide shot of the studio - perhaps one presenter at the desk and the other at the wall, and cut to the presenter at the wall first.


'Because it looks better on screen' is a very subjective reason, and again isn't really compelling enough to force this sort of change through. When you some have rehearsal time before a bulletin (as with the Nationals), or during commercial breaks or back-half-hours (as with World News), it's easier to get this stuff right. It's also easier to do when you've got more space to work with than a small long, narrow space enclosed on all sides; presenters can rehearse in other presentation areas on Sky News and Al-Jazeera in a way that can't be achieved on the BBC News Channel, where all of your presentation zones are essentially overlapping and within earshot or line of sight of your main camera views.

This is why most of the time they present as much as possible from one side of the studio or bringing correspondents around the desk; in a rolling news environment, where you have very little 'rehearsal' time for your next half-hour, and very little space to work between different presentation areas, it makes sense to keep things as simple as possible.

IIRC In the Lambert report - conducted in 2003, weren't the beeb told that BBC News 24 needed to find different and more innovative ways to present the news. Now, they did do this for a while - as these clips show... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fNjNGI4GA4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrDNDQwzPhQ (As you can see News 24 did do stand up TOTH's during 9am-4pm).


BBC News 24's response to finding different and more innovative ways to present the news was to emulate (copy) ideas already in use elsewhere. Sky News had been making better use of in-vision stand-up presentation for some time with the video wall, and they had also tried genuinely new ideas like the Skystrator. Arguably, the Skystrator added very little in terms of presenting information clearly and succinctly - it was very much an example of technology being used for the sake of being flashy - but N24 ripped it off and tried out their own version of the same technology, and failed to make anything more of it than Sky did.

Repeating this kind of 'innovation' for the sake of providing variety and flash ultimately doesn't add anything to the ultimate aim of the exercise, which is to deliver the news clearly and in such a way that helps people understand and grasp the issues. Similarly, adding a glassy sheen to the graphics that already work perfectly well towards achieving those aims of clarity and functionality makes no sense - the graphics work just fine, they're not causing any problems, so there's no justification for expenditure there.

Change and 'innovation' for its own sake - or for the sake of solving a problem that doesn't actually exist - is ultimately self-defeating.

Other things that could have a possitive impact... Presenting the weather from the Barco's more frequently - this only ever seems to happen at 5pm. Also, now and again putting the main image of the story that is being talked about - behind the presenters, this does have a good effect but is barely done. Like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJQXHgIcdOs


A positive impact on what? On the BBC News Channel's increasing ratings? On BBC News' continued strength of reputation around the globe? On the fact that the BBC News remains the outlet to which a significant majority of viewers turn during breaking news situations? What problem are these changes supposed to be solving?

If the only problem that's being solved is reducing the monotony of hour after hour of the same presentation style, consider that that's not what the BBC News Channel - what any news channel - is for. With the exception of a tiny minority of people - namely those who like to complain to Newswatch, and presentation enthusiasts - viewers do not tune in to watch hours of the BBC News Channel on end. Those that have the channel on for longer periods tend to have it on in the background, often with the volume down, and it is not their primary focus (whether those that work at home, or have it on the office, or where it's being shown in a public space like a pub or a lobby/reception area) - and in those cases, the routine of two near-identical top-of-the-hours is not going to affect them.

The reasons why I think things aren't done on the news channel. Maybe their worried that they'll get complaints from viewers - well, my reaction to this is if its only a handful of people who complain - the rest of the population are most probably happy with it. The thing is... the BBC News channel hasn't tried it (unless you count News 24 in 2003), and some may say 'it doesn't make a difference if the presenter stands' - but maybe it does. Perhaps also, the news channel presenters don't get a trouser allowance. Wink Embarassed


You've just made the perfect case against your own argument: "if it's only a handful of people who complain, the rest of the population are most probably happy with it". The majority of people are not complaining about the things that you are. Hell, even the majority of presentation enthusiasts that I know aren't complaining about the same things you are. I can't imagine that very many people outside of this forum care very much whether the weather is presented from a green-screen or in front of a Barco display in the studio. They just want to know if it's going to rain tomorrow.

I really think that a 'viewer panel' would be really effective for the news channel and BBC News as a whole. Yes we have newswatch but a viewer panel would also be constructive. Comprising of 10-15 people that meet every couple of months to discuss with editors how the channel could improve... this would be a very positive step. It is a public service broadcaster after all.


The majority of BBC outlets that I know of already have this kind of arrangement, except they don't confine it to the same 10-15 people. Some of the feedback is gathered online through surveys on the BBC website; some of it is gathered through external market research agencies, and some is gathered by the BBC directly through face to face interviews and discussion groups (such as World Service feedback at Bush House, Radio 1 Newsbeat feedback at Broadcasting House and the now-dissolved Local and Regional Advisory Councils at the BBC's regional centres). One example of a BBC viewer feedback group is the BBC Northern Ireland Audience e-Panel.

In conclusion, I'm not saying that the BBC News channel needs to 'be like Sky News' - far from it... but a bit of innovation never went a miss. Look at cars, if they hadn't evolved we would never of ended up with electronic ignition, power steering etc.


Nothing you have described is in any way innovative. You've stated that the BBC needs to refresh its graphics by reintroducing elements that were discarded over two years ago, such as the Swiss font and 'glassy' effect. You've stated that the News Channel needs to make more use of stand-up presentation - which has been around for years, and the fact that it's not being employed on BBC NC doesn't represent a middle-finger to innovation; it's a presentation choice influenced by the limitations of the current studio environment. You've stated that weather needs to be presented more regularly from within the studio, but again, this doesn't represent an innovation - just a change which, arguably, would go unnoticed by the majority of viewers, but which would introduce complexity and complication to the production, and likely result in a lower overall quality of output; it's best to focus on doing what you can as best you can, rather than trying to do a lot of things and end up doing them poorly.

So, all in all, I'm glad you're not the one making the decisions at the BBC News Channel, because I don't think you have a clue what you're on about. And that's fine, I'm not having a go at you for that - we're all ignorant until we learn; heaven knows I still learn plenty from the insights that are shared on here by the likes of noggin, Inspector Sands, Bush House, and others.
BB
BBC LDN
...continued (for some reason, my post appeared to reach a character limit in the last paragraph - I think the Rambling Diatribe Detector kicked in).

But what I find irritating is that you, and a small handful of others, seem content to remain ignorant, ignoring the information that others share with you on here about how it all works, and repeating the same wishes over and over again in the foolish belief that you know best.

You don't.
DS
Dan S
I understand that the studio that is currently occupied by the BBC News Channel isn't as flexible as the one BBC News 24 previously lived in. I suppose really it's all down to BBC cutbacks in a way. Once upon a time, the colour of the ticker, the size of the 'BBC' logo on the News 24 tower, the images/clips in the countdown etc were all updated about every six months or so. Now of course, the BBC understand that less is more, which I presume is why they dropped the '24' on the name of their domestic news channel, absolutely nothing, apart from a few of the clips in the countdown, and of course the countdown music, hasn't changed at all since the April 08 rebranding, and why everything just seems so much simpler on BBC News these days

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