The Newsroom

BBC News Channel Presentation - 21/03/16 onwards

Split from BBC News Channel General Discussion (March 2016)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
DE
deejay
"Ringmain" is a fairly old fashioned term now, and I think a BBC only one. In radio, several audio channels were piped around the newsrooms and staff could use rotary selectors to switch between whichever audio feed they desired, John Simpson describes his first days in the newsroom as believeing everyone to be earnest and very serious, utterly committed to their listening, until he discovered that most of them were tuning in to the cricket.

At TV Centre, it was an analogue RF based distribution system, so that a number of tv channels could be received on any analogue tv screen plugged into an aerial socket. Tv Centre had (I think) as many channels as could be squeezed into the standard rf range for U.K. Television sets. I don't remember the picture quality being particularly good, but it was fine for viewing purposes. There were several bookable channels, which could show internal 'programmes' like major staff announcements from the director general and so on, or previews of new programmes when new seasons were launched. There was also an internal teletext channel "InFax" which showed things like studio bookings and so on (I think, it's a long time ago!)

Ringmains in other bbc buildings depended on what was available in the building and what budget (and local need) there was to provide the service. In some smaller stations is could be just one or two additional channels to those available locally on analogue television.

Now it's all digital and in BH, each desk has three boxes on it: a free to air tuner used for audio channel listening, a small free to air tv, and a control and audio mixing box (that's the item with green buttons on it, referred to above). You can set the tv to view any one of several hundred channels, the set to box to listen to a radio station, audio feed or output from a studio, plus the audio from your PC also goes through the box, so you can switch that into your headphones too. Some desks have more than one tv screen on them (programme and channel editors for example, who like to be across several news broadcasters at once) and they have control boxes that can look after multiple receivers.

It's a bespoke unit made by Sonifex specially for the BBC, but is featured in this press release on their website https://youtu.be/e9Gz3CFhuxg. Most desks in Broadcasting House have them.

Back to other bbc buildings though, and things are increasingly delivered digitally via IP.
DE
deejay
The other box, with green backlit buttons and microphone is a Delec talkback box. Not all desks have those, but they're on desks for anyone with a need to be in direct communication with a gallery, edit suite etc.
BA
Bail Moderator
I'm not sure thats the link you intended to post there, nice as it is to see the fish fingers again.
DE
deejay
Oops! Here's the link I meant to paste ... (it's been a very long day and it's only 7pm...) http://www.sonifex.co.uk/company/press/2014/13012014_sonifex_tv_controller_on_tv.shtml
BC
Blake Connolly Founding member
Been a couple of years since I used it but I remember the first channels on the digital ringmain being the domestic BBC channels, ITV/C4 etc., then the international BBC channels and all the main news channels. There were also versions of BBC Three and Four on something like a 14-hour delay, I guess it might have been so people who worked on the channels could have the previous night's output on in the office. Then there were a couple of hundred foreign channels, mostly news channels and mostly from the Middle East.

After that, there were various quads, for example one showing BBC 1/2/News/World, then a couple showing various news channels, I think one was more UK-based with Sky News and the other was international, CNN etc. Then I think you got the outputs of all the studios in BH, all the edit suites, and then all the outside lines coming in - usually people sat in a studio somewhere waiting to be interviewed. I think there was a whole load of radio stuff after that.

It was always worth a scan on a Saturday afternoon, sometimes you'd find one of the MOTD feeds!
NG
noggin Founding member
Was there any reason why the BBC News at Six used a recorded newsroom trundle cam shot this evening? You could tell it was recorded as someone was sitting at the studio desk as the camera zoomed towards studio E, but when they cut to the studio shot George was standing at the cat walk.

Just watched back the shot and it actually isn't recorded, if you watch the mini screens next to computers in the newsroom they show the titles forming with the 6 as little live relay. The person you think sitting at the desk is actually just a studio camera thats confusing your mind to make it look like someone is in the seat. Plus Reeta is sat in the newsroom prepping for the 10.


How are the feeds distributed in house to those TVs on the desk? Is there an inhouse cable system or are they IP based?


In BBC NBH, as in BBC Bush House before it, the 'Ringmain' is DVB-T terrestrial (not DVB-C cable) based. There is also a multicast IPTV system available for the wider BBC (but I think it has fewer channels than the News DVB-T system) The Multicast system works with generic IPTV set top boxes but is mainly used for viewing TV on your main PC desktop.

The one at Bush was a bit 'odd' in that it used DVB-T across a much wider frequency band than was used for DVB-T OTA in Europe - effectively treating it as a 'cable' system, but not using DVB-C modulation. As a result the Bush DVB-T ringmain only worked with a small number of STBs that would tune across the wider range, and many DVB-T TVs would only receive a subset of channels. This is no longer the case at NBH.

At TV Centre, in the newsroom, an analogue RF system with two RF feeds to each desk was available - as there were too many channels to fit into a single analogue ring main. There were external tuners that handled the switching between channels, and avoided the need for IR remote controls (you can imagine how good THAT would be with a TV on each desk...) The analogue ringmain was carefully thought out though - so that news and non-news specific services were on different analogue rings, avoiding the need for external tuners for general use TVs in green rooms, meeting rooms etc.

I don't know if the Main-block ringmain was simply one of the two News RF feeds (or one of the two News RF feeds was the main block ringmain) but I think they were different, as you could watch individual main block studios on the main-block ringmain, but I don't think you could watch them in the newsroom without them being specifically booked (though the news studios were available)
Last edited by noggin on 26 November 2016 12:34pm
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Here's a piece about the ringmain in the Radio WM news studio at Pebble Mill

http://www.pebblemill.org/blog/radio-wm-studio-with-ringmain-selector/
NG
noggin Founding member
"Ringmain" is a fairly old fashioned term now, and I think a BBC only one. In radio, several audio channels were piped around the newsrooms and staff could use rotary selectors to switch between whichever audio feed they desired, John Simpson describes his first days in the newsroom as believeing everyone to be earnest and very serious, utterly committed to their listening, until he discovered that most of them were tuning in to the cricket.


Ringmain is in use elsewhere as a term too. It is used by hotels to describe their bespoke RF distribution system too I believe.
NG
noggin Founding member

How are the feeds distributed in house to those TVs on the desk? Is there an inhouse cable system or are they IP based?


I think it's called Ringmain and it has a selection of outside sources you can choose to display on each screen (by using a small grey box plugged into the monitor)


No - the feed to the TV is the ringmain, the actual box is a Ringmain tuner.

Quote:

Ringmain I thought was an internal channel showing announcements.


No - here a Ringmain is a bespoke (usually RF but could be IP) TV distribution system - used in hotels, conference centres, newsrooms, office buildings etc.

Quote:

Does anyone have details of the STB?

Edit : Here's the box I'm talking about underneath the TV. Additionally who makes what appears to be an intercom solution untderneath the monitor:




Sonifex Newsroom system - specified and bespoke to the BBC I think. There were analogue versions at TV Centre. It allows tuning of video and audio either together or split (the analogue models allows teletext access too ISTR) They have manual keypads for channel changing and other functions for very obvious reasons.. (Think of hundreds of identical IR remote controls being used in a room...)

Quote:

Additionally what's the manufacture of the product with the green LEDs and the microphones.





I ask because the products and manufactures are different in the US than the U.K..


That's a Delec desktop talkback box.

Delec no longer exist (which is a bit unfortunate for the BBC as they based almost all of NBH around Delec talkback kit). It was not particularly liked by operators and engineers alike, and made little headway in the UK outside the BBC (no-one else bought it). TBS, in the US, announced a major purchase - but I don't know if that actually came to fruition.

Riedel have bought Delec's Intellectual Property, but aren't continuing the product lines AIUI (Delec had some nice IP-based intercom stuff which Riedel may well fold into their Artist or similar series of products)

In the UK Riedel is incredibly popular (Sky, IMG, BT Sport, Arena, BBC Sport are all based around Riedel) though RTS and Clearcom also have some impact on the market. (Trilogy was - and is - used by BBC News as well - but I think have been bought up by another manufacturer recently. Trilogy was the standard talkback solution for BBC News at TV Centre, and is still deployed - alongside Riedel - for the elections)

UK and US talkback differ significantly - and have different requirements as a result. (UK systems are based far more around 4 wires than 2 wires, and the concept of the "Production Loop" is unheard of in the UK, where "Open Talkback" is used - but with a far more matrix-based talk/listen system that allows different mixes to be generated for individual operators or groups)
IS
Inspector Sands
There was also an internal teletext channel "InFax" which showed things like studio bookings and so on (I think, it's a long time ago!)

Infax was the BBC archive catalogue.

The Internal teletext system was called 'Telfax' - it was available in the normal way on TV sets in the building and there was a 'in-vision' channel displayed in the corridors, mainly in the lift lobbies
http://teletext.mb21.co.uk/gallery/ceefax/telfax100.gif http://teletext.mb21.co.uk/gallery/ceefax/telfax116.gif
(pics from MB21)
deejay and London Lite gave kudos
IS
Inspector Sands
. There were also versions of BBC Three and Four on something like a 14-hour delay, I guess it might have been so people who worked on the channels could have the previous night's output on in the office.

Right back in the early 2000's when I was at TV Centre, there was a time delayed version of BBC Choice on the ringmain. Yep it was there because the majority of people working in the building would have gone home before it was on air. Of course back then most wouldn't have had access to it at home either
RK
Rkolsen
Thank you deejay, noggin, Bail, Blake Connolly, Steve in Pudsey and Inspector Sands for your answers and replies!

Very Happy

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