The Newsroom

BBC News 24

General day-to-day goings on (January 2005)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
BB
BBC LDN
Dog posted:
BBC LDN posted:
Dog posted:
BBC LDN posted:
For the love of God... News 24 Tonight has been going on for ages now. I seem to remember some press release flying out of someone's ass a while back claiming that a priority in the BBC's affirmation that N24 is central to BBC News would be to ensure that graphics and features from the nations and regions would "fit" with those on N24 as part of the integration strategy, and the commitment to better use of resources outside of London. Yet every day on N24 Tonight, I watch as during report after report, the Tower and ticker have to be taken off because graphics from the nations and regions fail to take into account the N24 furniture.

Can it really be so hard to issue a memo to all the centres pointing out that the bottom eighth and lower-left twelfth of the screen should not feature important text or images? Ooh, it gets my goat, it does.


Live in the real world.

People in the regions get piissed on most of the time by the nationals, and really could hardly care less if a report they've made for their OWN programme upsets the ticker on News 24.

And if you're using a freelance graphic operator, because your budget has been slashed by 15%, and you've had to get rid of your full time graphics people, then the freelance is hardly gonna know, or care, about Towers, or tickers, or News 24...freelancers care about their next booking.


Please don't talk to me like I'm a fùckìng child. I made a valid point, and certainly a valid observation on a forum dedicated to the discussion of such things, and if that upsets or irritates you, then kindly fùck off and take your attitude with you.

If management make a statement saying that they are making a commitment to ensuring that graphics from nations and regions fit with the N24 furniture, then I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some demonstrable action in that direction.

And please don't lecture me on living in the real world. Judging by your naive comments, you clearly have no concept of what freelance hiring entails. A freelancer is entirely at the mercy of those who are using their service; not the other way around. While it may be true to say that the freelancer's main concern is their next booking, any responsible hirer of a freelancer would ensure that the job is done satisfactorily, and that the requirements of the work are explained before work on the job in hand commences.

So while I will accept that regions may well be disillusioned and frustrated with no longer having dedicated graphics professionals and having to use freelancers for such tasks, I'm afraid there is no substance to your implication that it's such a massive effort to sufficiently enthuse a freelancer to give a toss about N24 graphics compatibility. The beauty of getting freelancers in is that you don't have to bother enthusing them or motivating them or getting them to care about your organisation's relationship with head office - you give them a task, you tell them what you need them to do, they do it, you pay them, they bùgger off. Simple as that. For goodness' sake, all the nations/regions have to do is present a piece of paper with N24 graphic-safe areas to the freelancer; I don't understand why this is such an unreasonable thing to expect, nor why I should therefore be berated for living in some kind of ridiculous fantasy for expecting such a thing.

If managers or editors in the regions and nations are unable to sufficiently brief a freelancer on their work beforehand, supposedly as a result of indifference towards head office requirements for compatibility with other channels, then as much as I sympathise with their irritation for budget cuts - and make no mistake, I do - I would question the professionalism of those individuals if they are unable or unwilling to do a complete and proper job as some kind of juvenile silent protest against management.


What a dream world you live in...


I live in a world where professionals are expected to do their jobs properly. Clearly, your world doesn't have even that kind of basic requirement, where even the simplest solution to a problem is ignored in favour of sticking one up at the management.

That's the difference between your world and mine: I'm a professional, you clearly are not. That is reflected in your words, your attitude, and I'm sure it's also reflected in the poor quality of your work.

Frankly I'd rather live my dream than endure your rather lazy view of reality.
LO
LONDON
BBC LDN posted:
For the love of God... News 24 Tonight has been going on for ages now. I seem to remember some press release flying out of someone's ass a while back claiming that a priority in the BBC's affirmation that N24 is central to BBC News would be to ensure that graphics and features from the nations and regions would "fit" with those on N24 as part of the integration strategy, and the commitment to better use of resources outside of London. Yet every day on N24 Tonight, I watch as during report after report, the Tower and ticker have to be taken off because graphics from the nations and regions fail to take into account the N24 furniture.

Can it really be so hard to issue a memo to all the centres pointing out that the bottom eighth and lower-left twelfth of the screen should not feature important text or images? Ooh, it gets my goat, it does.


The changes to the graphics, was never going to happen overnight, and i think may be happening about the same time as the relaunch of the national news on BBC1. However saying this BBC London has come up with a graphic system which does not clash with News 24, no matter how awful it looks. The main bulletins on BBC1, has attempted to adjust there graphics so they fit into a News 24 report, however there are still some teething problems with this, so perhaps they should concentrate on getting the main bulletins right first, mainly due to them all appearing on a simulcast, and then move onto the regions.
BB
BBC LDN
LONDON posted:
BBC LDN posted:
For the love of God... News 24 Tonight has been going on for ages now. I seem to remember some press release flying out of someone's ass a while back claiming that a priority in the BBC's affirmation that N24 is central to BBC News would be to ensure that graphics and features from the nations and regions would "fit" with those on N24 as part of the integration strategy, and the commitment to better use of resources outside of London. Yet every day on N24 Tonight, I watch as during report after report, the Tower and ticker have to be taken off because graphics from the nations and regions fail to take into account the N24 furniture.

Can it really be so hard to issue a memo to all the centres pointing out that the bottom eighth and lower-left twelfth of the screen should not feature important text or images? Ooh, it gets my goat, it does.


The changes to the graphics, was never going to happen overnight, and i think may be happening about the same time as the relaunch of the national news on BBC1. However saying this BBC London has come up with a graphic system which does not clash with News 24, no matter how awful it looks. The main bulletins on BBC1, has attempted to adjust there graphics so they fit into a News 24 report, however there are still some teething problems with this, so perhaps they should concentrate on getting the main bulletins right first, mainly due to them all appearing on a simulcast, and then move onto the regions.


Actually BBC London's new graphics frequently clash with those of N24, particularly when there is a large image in the top two-thirds, and text in the lower third of the screen. The text is invariably centred, meaning that it almost always gets obscured by the Tower when used on N24. Fullscreen non-template graphics also often clash.
DO
Dog
BBC LDN posted:
Dog posted:
BBC LDN posted:
Dog posted:
BBC LDN posted:
For the love of God... News 24 Tonight has been going on for ages now. I seem to remember some press release flying out of someone's ass a while back claiming that a priority in the BBC's affirmation that N24 is central to BBC News would be to ensure that graphics and features from the nations and regions would "fit" with those on N24 as part of the integration strategy, and the commitment to better use of resources outside of London. Yet every day on N24 Tonight, I watch as during report after report, the Tower and ticker have to be taken off because graphics from the nations and regions fail to take into account the N24 furniture.

Can it really be so hard to issue a memo to all the centres pointing out that the bottom eighth and lower-left twelfth of the screen should not feature important text or images? Ooh, it gets my goat, it does.


Live in the real world.

People in the regions get piissed on most of the time by the nationals, and really could hardly care less if a report they've made for their OWN programme upsets the ticker on News 24.

And if you're using a freelance graphic operator, because your budget has been slashed by 15%, and you've had to get rid of your full time graphics people, then the freelance is hardly gonna know, or care, about Towers, or tickers, or News 24...freelancers care about their next booking.


Please don't talk to me like I'm a f�ck�ng child. I made a valid point, and certainly a valid observation on a forum dedicated to the discussion of such things, and if that upsets or irritates you, then kindly f�ck off and take your attitude with you.

If management make a statement saying that they are making a commitment to ensuring that graphics from nations and regions fit with the N24 furniture, then I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some demonstrable action in that direction.

And please don't lecture me on living in the real world. Judging by your naive comments, you clearly have no concept of what freelance hiring entails. A freelancer is entirely at the mercy of those who are using their service; not the other way around. While it may be true to say that the freelancer's main concern is their next booking, any responsible hirer of a freelancer would ensure that the job is done satisfactorily, and that the requirements of the work are explained before work on the job in hand commences.

So while I will accept that regions may well be disillusioned and frustrated with no longer having dedicated graphics professionals and having to use freelancers for such tasks, I'm afraid there is no substance to your implication that it's such a massive effort to sufficiently enthuse a freelancer to give a toss about N24 graphics compatibility. The beauty of getting freelancers in is that you don't have to bother enthusing them or motivating them or getting them to care about your organisation's relationship with head office - you give them a task, you tell them what you need them to do, they do it, you pay them, they b�gger off. Simple as that. For goodness' sake, all the nations/regions have to do is present a piece of paper with N24 graphic-safe areas to the freelancer; I don't understand why this is such an unreasonable thing to expect, nor why I should therefore be berated for living in some kind of ridiculous fantasy for expecting such a thing.

If managers or editors in the regions and nations are unable to sufficiently brief a freelancer on their work beforehand, supposedly as a result of indifference towards head office requirements for compatibility with other channels, then as much as I sympathise with their irritation for budget cuts - and make no mistake, I do - I would question the professionalism of those individuals if they are unable or unwilling to do a complete and proper job as some kind of juvenile silent protest against management.


What a dream world you live in...


I live in a world where professionals are expected to do their jobs properly. Clearly, your world doesn't have even that kind of basic requirement, where even the simplest solution to a problem is ignored in favour of sticking one up at the management.

That's the difference between your world and mine: I'm a professional, you clearly are not. That is reflected in your words, your attitude, and I'm sure it's also reflected in the poor quality of your work.

Frankly I'd rather live my dream than endure your rather lazy view of reality.


How can you possibly know, and even claim, that I am not professional in my work, and that I don't care about output?

I see freelancers come in and balls everything up. They're hired to get bums on seats cause real staff have been laid off because of budget cuts. FACT

There are some skills in which freelancers can be employed, and they can do a job as well as a full time member of staff. BUT, so often there are problems...

For example: if you need someone to operate an Avid machine, anyone can do that who is trained. BUT, a freelancer brought in for the odd day here and there is simply not going to know the style of the programme, unless the item producer steers a steady ship....but 9 times out of 10, the producer DOESN'T know, cause they leave all that up to the usual Avid editors...the very people you've just got rid of due to budget cuts, (because editors are seen as surplus cause the fashion is that journalists cut picturs on crappy desktop systems) and replaced with a jobbing freelance on a daily rate, who although would like to be booked again, has absolutly no loyalty to the outfit.

People have this idea that freelancers can just be hired in and the job will be magically done. Sometimes it can work like that, but more often than not, it doesn't. Luckily, the freelancers I work with are top notch.

Here's another way to look at the original problem of the regional graphinc messing with N24's: perhaps the editor who cut the piece no longer cared whether the graphic messed up or not, cause they were being made redundant in a few months, or they had another 3 items to edit that afternoon, etc etc.

And here's another way to look at it: perhaps the editor who cut the piece was simply really crap at their job.

As for my 'attitude', i'm sick and tired of people professing to know it all about the way tv operates...cause I tell you...most of the people on the TV forum don't.
DU
Dunedin
Dog posted:

How can you possibly know, and even claim, that I am not professional in my work, and that I don't care about output?

I see freelancers come in and balls everything up. They're hired to get bums on seats cause real staff have been laid off because of budget cuts. FACT

There are some skills in which freelancers can be employed, and they can do a job as well as a full time member of staff. BUT, so often there are problems...

For example: if you need someone to operate an Avid machine, anyone can do that who is trained. BUT, a freelancer brought in for the odd day here and there is simply not going to know the style of the programme, unless the item producer steers a steady ship....but 9 times out of 10, the producer DOESN'T know, cause they leave all that up to the usual Avid editors...the very people you've just got rid of due to budget cuts, (because editors are seen as surplus cause the fashion is that journalists cut picturs on crappy desktop systems) and replaced with a jobbing freelance on a daily rate, who although would like to be booked again, has absolutly no loyalty to the outfit.

People have this idea that freelancers can just be hired in and the job will be magically done. Sometimes it can work like that, but more often than not, it doesn't. Luckily, the freelancers I work with are top notch.

Here's another way to look at the original problem of the regional graphinc messing with N24's: perhaps the editor who cut the piece no longer cared whether the graphic messed up or not, cause they were being made redundant in a few months, or they had another 3 items to edit that afternoon, etc etc.

And here's another way to look at it: perhaps the editor who cut the piece was simply really crap at their job.

As for my 'attitude', i'm sick and tired of people professing to know it all about the way tv operates...cause I tell you...most of the people on the TV forum don't.


You have serious issues with your job.

People are being made redundant- big deal.

Welcome to the "real world" as you put it- yes the big bad world out there that BBC employees have been protected from for far too long. The world of competition, performance related pay and productivity drives. This is NOT uncommon to anyone who works outside of the BBC.

Having the threat of redundancy is NO excuse for doing a sh!te job. In fact the opposite, because it's damn hard to give someone who 'gives up' when things get a bit competitive a decent reference.

It's such a simple task- no editor would put major graphics outside of the 4:3 viewing area, so they're clearly capable of following some graphical guidelines. This is a simple example of repeated incompetance- your defence of it highlights this terrible "us against them" attitude of some BBC employees ever since somebody came in and mentioned the word "accountability" for the licence fee.

Don't get me wrong- I love the BBC and think it's our best export bar none. I think it's a great sense of pride for a lot of British people. But the attitude you and some of your colleagues display on this board are examples of this creeping laziness of some BBC employees just because somebody's trying increase accountability and preserve the future of an independent BBC for generations to come.
DO
Dog
Dunedin posted:

You have serious issues with your job.

People are being made redundant- big deal.


Again, you simply have no grounds to make these claims. I'm calling it as I see it, day in, day out.

Dunedin posted:

Having the threat of redundancy is NO excuse for doing a sh!te job. In fact the opposite, because it's damn hard to give someone who 'gives up' when things get a bit competitive a decent reference.

It's such a simple task- no editor would put major graphics outside of the 4:3 viewing area, so they're clearly capable of following some graphical guidelines. This is a simple example of repeated incompetance- your defence of it highlights this terrible "us against them" attitude of some BBC employees ever since somebody came in and mentioned the word "accountability" for the licence fee.

Don't get me wrong- I love the BBC and think it's our best export bar none. I think it's a great sense of pride for a lot of British people. But the attitude you and some of your colleagues display on this board are examples of this creeping laziness of some BBC employees just because somebody's trying increase accountability and preserve the future of an independent BBC for generations to come.


On the rest of your post, you're 100% right. I totally agree with you...but in every orginisation there are staff everyone avoids cause they're crap at what they do.
SN
The SNT Three
Whats' happened to everyone recently?
Tonight we've got Julian Worricker and Phillippa Thomas on News 24 Tonight, and we've had... almost everyone else on so far this week, but Jane, Chris and Louise are nowhere to be seen! Are they using up holiday?
CC
CyberCD
Quite a few holiday-entitlement schemes run from 1st April, so maybe people are using up their allowances while they can? Or... it's just a coincidence.
HA
harshy Founding member
Dog posted:
but in every orginisation there are staff everyone avoids cause they're crap at what they do.


I try to avoid a lot of staff simply because they are "crap" at what they do. Sad

I guess the guidelines are obviously there, but when there is little time on your hands, then I guess the last thing on people's minds is the positioning of graphics, they just do the best they can.
MO
Moz
Sorry to talk about News 24, but...

Anyone any idea who's presenting 6.30-7pm on News 24 from April 10th. It wasn't specified in the press release schedule.
LO
LONDON
Moz posted:
Sorry to talk about News 24, but...

Anyone any idea who's presenting 6.30-7pm on News 24 from April 10th. It wasn't specified in the press release schedule.


I have the feeling that Sportsday will be put in this slot, but no there is no information regarding this slot yet. I wonder if in August the Nationwide trial will extend to BBC News 24, incorportating News 24 Tonight.
JW
JamesWorldNews
Moz posted:
Sorry to talk about News 24, but...

Anyone any idea who's presenting 6.30-7pm on News 24 from April 10th. It wasn't specified in the press release schedule.



Hallelujah! The thread's back on track..........

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