The Newsroom

BBC Network news - no longer relevant for the nations?

BBC Network news now seems to be the English news in all but name (June 2020)

This site closed in March 2021 and is now a read-only archive
NE
Newsroom
Last week there was a report on the potential relaxing of the 2m social distancing rule and re-opening the hospitality industry. The devolved governments have total competency over if they want to relax the 2m rule and when they re-open hospitality. The report only applied to England, this was never mentioned or pointed out, and it was presented as a UK wide report.


I’m afraid it isn’t as clear cut as you appear to believe. Health and safety from a public health perspective is devolved yet health and safety from an employment perspective is reserved to the Government in Westminster and to the Health and Safety Executive in particular. The devolved administrations do not have total competency on these matters. Competency is shared, and in some instances, reserved.

Same with the free school meals summer vouchers campaign earlier this week. In all of the national TV news coverage I saw of it, not once was it mentioned that Scotland and Wales had already confirmed they would extend the FSM vouchers over the summer, and Marcus Rashford's campaign only applied to England.


Again, it isn't as clear cut as this. I agree that the administrations in Cardiff and Edinburgh had already committed to extending the scheme, as is their prerogative. However, the management and oversight of such schemes is reserved to the Government at Westminster. It is - in part - for that reason that the Scottish Government has already asked the UK Government what finances and measures will be in place if it needs to prolong the furlough scheme to specific sectors of the economy within Scotland or adjust (in other words subsidise) benefits.

For the record, your comments that "The report only applied to England, this was never mentioned or pointed out" and "...not once was it mentioned that Scotland and Wales had already confirmed they would extend the FSM vouchers over the summer, and Marcus Rashford's campaign only applied to England" do not hold water. It as mentioned specifically in most (I won't say all) reports that discussed these topics. Indeed, when Scottish and Welsh politicians were interviewed they explicitly referred to these differences.

To go one stage further... you've said "if England relaxes the 2m rule and Scotland & Wales don't, it will be crucial that this is made crystal clear it only applies to England". That was made perfectly clear. When changes to the transport rules were introduced - such as wearing face masks - it was made clear that people getting on a train in Edinburgh would not be required to wear a face mask but once they crossed the border into England, they would be required to do so (and vice versa). Indeed, the reports about a relaxation of the lockdown rules (barbecues and what not) referred to places such as Chester, where you could visit friends and family, but would be unable to do so if they lived on the far side of the North Wales Expressway.

I don't think there's been anything wrong with the BBC's coverage. It's fulfilled the remit of the national broadcaster in a time of national crisis.


And super kudos to you for turning what is hopefully the end of this this thread into the Sesame Street of explanations for all.
SC
Schwing
I'm totally flummoxed as to what on earth is the issue here?

...

Why on each would any nation/region not be interested in either? The Scotts will always be interested in knowing what's going on in the rest of the United Kingdom, the same as the Welsh and Northern Irish.


I agree wholeheartedly. The coverage has, on the whole, been balanced and represented all of the UK. The press conferences by the First Minsters of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales have been aired everyday (where possible) and the national editors or the primary correspondents in each of the Nations have been on screen multiple times each week.

The reason I'm so jaded about this topic is that it periodically comes up (usually the Scottish variant) and is more or less always ultimately about the OP's own feelings towards England (and by extension, the UK) rather than the pseudo-practical premise the argument is made on. So far, I'm not convinced you're any different in this respect.


Spot on. I’m rather like Newsroom and a bit of a mongrel. I was born in Gloucester to Welsh parents. I lived in Yorkshire. I lived in Sussex. I went to university and lived in Scotland (where I was lucky enough to teach a fellow TVForumer). I worked in the USA. My family are all over the country. I want to know the news. I want to know what’s going on everywhere. I wanted to know about the flooding in Somerset where my brother lives, even though I was in Scotland. I wanted to know about Scottish politics or the Welsh health service even though I was in Yorkshire.

The idea that I should only want a Welsh or Scottish variant of the news is poppycock
NL
Ne1L C
I can understand the desire for news. It's not just because I'm a journalism graduate but because I've got family across 2 countries (England and Australia). I've watched both the Scottish and English press conferences and have scoured websites to find out any news about a vaccine.

We should feel fortunate that we have a superb media to give us as much info as possible

@Schwing. I think its nicer to call yourself a citizen of the world Very Happy
CM
cmthwtv
On tonight’s Ten - Huw (surprisingly on a Thursday) introduces the new measures in Scotland that was announced today. He also mentions about NI for 2m to 1m in schools.

They then go to the three correspondents for Northern Ireland (Emma Vardy) Scotland (Sarah Smith) and then Wales (Hywel Griffith). Each correspondent had a minute to explain what’s going on where they are.

This is not the first time this has happened. It happens almost every night. It started on the Ten that follows the lockdown announcement with Fiona Bruce on 23 March. It happened when Boris Johnson announced the UKs roadmap in May.

It’s effective in terms of conveying information clearly and in terms of maximising space in the bulletins. I don’t see the issue.
Steve Williams, Custard56 and Brekkie gave kudos
MO
Moz
Simple answer - abolish the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament, have the whole country run from London like it used to be quite successfully for centuries, and then the British Broadcasting Corporation could continue to do its job.
CA
Cardiffian
It seems this thread is dominated by people who live in England and so don't see the problem with English news dominating the national bulletins, or people who live in the nations and don't agree with devolution full stop, so the BBC can go back to being 'truly British'. Rolling Eyes So we're not going to get much further here.

A few corrections before I leave this thread:
It happened when Boris Johnson announced the UKs roadmap in May.


He didn't announce a UK roadmap, he announced an English roadmap. Scotland, Wales and to a lesser extent NI, have developed and published their own plans out of lockdown and did not adopt Westminster's plans.


Wales of where I am from and I live in London and Wales already has well over 80 mins of news produced by the Wales Today team per weekday. Before Covid they had a weekly programme after the 10.

BBC One Wales simulcasts the Welsh Govt daily media briefing Monday to Friday at 12:30pm that is always cut short for the 1pm news. Not exactly ground breaking stuff.
CM
cmthwtv
It seems this thread is dominated by people who live in England and so don't see the problem with English news dominating the national bulletins, or people who live in the nations and don't agree with devolution full stop, so the BBC can go back to being 'truly British'. Rolling Eyes So we're not going to get much further here.

A few corrections before I leave this thread:
It happened when Boris Johnson announced the UKs roadmap in May.


He didn't announce a UK roadmap, he announced an English roadmap. Scotland, Wales and to a lesser extent NI, have developed and published their own plans out of lockdown and did not adopt Westminster's plans.


Wales of where I am from and I live in London and Wales already has well over 80 mins of news produced by the Wales Today team per weekday. Before Covid they had a weekly programme after the 10.

BBC One Wales simulcasts the Welsh Govt daily media briefing Monday to Friday at 12:30pm that is always cut short for the 1pm news. Not exactly ground breaking stuff.


I, personally, as somebody who views BBC News well above average, have seen no issues in the way that information has been portrayed in programming and reporting.

You pose the point, at the start of this thread, that the 1, 6 and 10 are no longer “relevant” to the devolved nations. Certainly, it is very difficult at the moment when you have restrictions on the way of life to some people dependent on where you live. But by the circumstances, I think that the teams have done a fantastic job at portraying information.

If we move away from COVID (if only), your average One was this is what is happening, Six this is what has happened today, and Ten this is what happened and why it happened. If x does y, whether it be in any part of the UK, it gets reported on.

Your argument is fairly compelling when it comes to the differences in restrictions depending on where you live, but this time next year any idea for a separate bulletin, I think, is a bit silly.
AS
AlexS
It seems this thread is dominated by people who live in England and so don't see the problem with English news dominating the national bulletins, or people who live in the nations and don't agree with devolution full stop, so the BBC can go back to being 'truly British'. Rolling Eyes So we're not going to get much further here.

A few corrections before I leave this thread:
It happened when Boris Johnson announced the UKs roadmap in May.


He didn't announce a UK roadmap, he announced an English roadmap. Scotland, Wales and to a lesser extent NI, have developed and published their own plans out of lockdown and did not adopt Westminster's plans.


Wales of where I am from and I live in London and Wales already has well over 80 mins of news produced by the Wales Today team per weekday. Before Covid they had a weekly programme after the 10.

BBC One Wales simulcasts the Welsh Govt daily media briefing Monday to Friday at 12:30pm that is always cut short for the 1pm news. Not exactly ground breaking stuff.


I, personally, as somebody who views BBC News well above average, have seen no issues in the way that information has been portrayed in programming and reporting.

You pose the point, at the start of this thread, that the 1, 6 and 10 are no longer “relevant” to the devolved nations. Certainly, it is very difficult at the moment when you have restrictions on the way of life to some people dependent on where you live. But by the circumstances, I think that the teams have done a fantastic job at portraying information.

If we move away from COVID (if only), your average One was this is what is happening, Six this is what has happened today, and Ten this is what happened and why it happened. If x does y, whether it be in any part of the UK, it gets reported on.

Your argument is fairly compelling when it comes to the differences in restrictions depending on where you live, but this time next year any idea for a separate bulletin, I think, is a bit silly.

Let's not pretend that the six and ten have any significant differences in content. While I am not doubting that in the past they had a different focus in the present day it isn't unusual for the 10 to essentially be the same as the six with the exception of live OBs being replaced by prerecords on the same topic. In fact I am sure that there has been occasions in the past couple of years where the only difference in the bulletins were the first 3 words (as the six will never start 'today at ten') and the person reading the script.
CM
cmthwtv
AlexS posted:
It seems this thread is dominated by people who live in England and so don't see the problem with English news dominating the national bulletins, or people who live in the nations and don't agree with devolution full stop, so the BBC can go back to being 'truly British'. Rolling Eyes So we're not going to get much further here.

A few corrections before I leave this thread:

He didn't announce a UK roadmap, he announced an English roadmap. Scotland, Wales and to a lesser extent NI, have developed and published their own plans out of lockdown and did not adopt Westminster's plans.

BBC One Wales simulcasts the Welsh Govt daily media briefing Monday to Friday at 12:30pm that is always cut short for the 1pm news. Not exactly ground breaking stuff.


I, personally, as somebody who views BBC News well above average, have seen no issues in the way that information has been portrayed in programming and reporting.

You pose the point, at the start of this thread, that the 1, 6 and 10 are no longer “relevant” to the devolved nations. Certainly, it is very difficult at the moment when you have restrictions on the way of life to some people dependent on where you live. But by the circumstances, I think that the teams have done a fantastic job at portraying information.

If we move away from COVID (if only), your average One was this is what is happening, Six this is what has happened today, and Ten this is what happened and why it happened. If x does y, whether it be in any part of the UK, it gets reported on.

Your argument is fairly compelling when it comes to the differences in restrictions depending on where you live, but this time next year any idea for a separate bulletin, I think, is a bit silly.

Let's not pretend that the six and ten have any significant differences in content. While I am not doubting that in the past they had a different focus in the present day it isn't unusual for the 10 to essentially be the same as the six with the exception of live OBs being replaced by prerecords on the same topic. In fact I am sure that there has been occasions in the past couple of years where the only difference in the bulletins were the first 3 words (as the six will never start 'today at ten') and the person reading the script.


Meh, Ten seems to have more two-ways and more analysis led reports shoved in. But I agree, they are almost identical. But if you disguise the bulletin behind George/Sophie (6) and Huw/Clive (10) you’ll notice the difference in presenting style. George Alagiah is very tone lead, and it seems is paid by how many times he can say BBCeez in one bulletin, where as Huw loves his 2+ minute headline sequences and quite long-ridden questions on two ways.

But yes, they are 90% similar.
AS
AlexS
AlexS posted:

I, personally, as somebody who views BBC News well above average, have seen no issues in the way that information has been portrayed in programming and reporting.

You pose the point, at the start of this thread, that the 1, 6 and 10 are no longer “relevant” to the devolved nations. Certainly, it is very difficult at the moment when you have restrictions on the way of life to some people dependent on where you live. But by the circumstances, I think that the teams have done a fantastic job at portraying information.

If we move away from COVID (if only), your average One was this is what is happening, Six this is what has happened today, and Ten this is what happened and why it happened. If x does y, whether it be in any part of the UK, it gets reported on.

Your argument is fairly compelling when it comes to the differences in restrictions depending on where you live, but this time next year any idea for a separate bulletin, I think, is a bit silly.

Let's not pretend that the six and ten have any significant differences in content. While I am not doubting that in the past they had a different focus in the present day it isn't unusual for the 10 to essentially be the same as the six with the exception of live OBs being replaced by prerecords on the same topic. In fact I am sure that there has been occasions in the past couple of years where the only difference in the bulletins were the first 3 words (as the six will never start 'today at ten') and the person reading the script.


Meh, Ten seems to have more two-ways and more analysis led reports shoved in. But I agree, they are almost identical. But if you disguise the bulletin behind George/Sophie (6) and Huw/Clive (10) you’ll notice the difference in presenting style. George Alagiah is very tone lead, and it seems is paid by how many times he can say BBCeez in one bulletin, where as Huw loves his 2+ minute headline sequences and quite long-ridden questions on two ways.

But yes, they are 90% similar.

Whether the presentation style is different on the six and the ten depends on who is presenting each bulletin. There are certainly occasions where the presentation is basically the same on both, most obviously on days where the same person presents both bulletins, but this also tends to be the case on days where Clive or Reeta do the ten regardless of who has done the six, and is often the case where somebody other than George does the six and Sophie or Fiona the Ten.
While Huw and George have distinct styles of presentation, Sophie and Fiona have a very similar style of presentation to each other, and Clive and Reeta will usually present in a relatively similar style to Sophie and Fiona when they are doing the six but tend to adopt the style of whoever did the six on days they are doing the ten. This should not be intended as criticism of any individual and is merely an indication that while Huw, George, Sophie and Fiona are more comfortable with their own styles of presentation (and therefore are more likely to adapt a bulletin to their style), while Clive and Reeta are happy to present in a variety of styles and will therefore work with whatever they are given by the previous presenter.
JW
JamesWorldNews
Woah!!!!!! Are you being paid for the number of times you mention a newscaster’s name in one post???

Lol.

This thread has proven to be classic TVF. A good mixture of solid substance and mature opinion, and then we all tend to take the thread along a path largely unrelated to the original subject.......glorious!

I guess it was difficult to have this conversation without straying into politics in some way. But there is only one post which rattled me. I won’t say which.

My only contribution to the thread: this subject of devolved Six O’clock News comes along once every few years. And, each time, it’s brought to the fore by an event (in this case, Covid) which illustrates our perceived need for a ‘National News’ which better serves our region.

And, after a few weeks/months, the argument dies down again.

That’s as much the case in Parliament and for those broadcasting pressure groups lobbying for change as it is for us ‘enthusiasts’ here at TVF. (I say enthusiasts because that’s what has brought us all to this forum).

As some of you have pointed out above, both BBC Scotland and STV News have tried wider-format bulletins to encompass regional, national and international news. Those formats were hardly a success. And we hardly ever talk about them here.

And, after a few rants and raves, the status quo remains as far as BBC Network News is concerned......

Apart from the political views at times, this thread has demonstrated what a passionate and eloquent group of Forumers you all are! I’ve enjoyed reading the intelligent argument put forward by everyone right from the opening post of the thread. Living abroad and seeing the debate from a different perspective, I can say that this has been one of the most interesting threads I’ve ever witnessed in my 16 years here.

You can all come for sherry any time.
PE
Pete Founding member
It seems this thread is dominated by people who live in England and so don't see the problem with English news dominating the national bulletins, or people who live in the nations and don't agree with devolution full stop, so the BBC can go back to being 'truly British'. Rolling Eyes So we're not going to get much further here.


I think that's unfair, Moz for example lives in Wales. He's just of a different opinion than you.

For what its worth I think the BBC has done significantly better over the past few weeks than its managed in terms of properly representing devolution for the past 20 years. I never used to hear the level of effort put into Newsbeat for example that currently exists.

If anything the times when its not mentioned show up bc its now the exception rather than the norm. Where things need to improve include short headlines on the website where its often forgotten that they are seen outside the context of the England index page. the thatsdevolved twitter account does a good job on this.

However the issue remains that the setup we have here is devolution, not federalism. England remains the default with Scotland, Wales, and NI opting out where necessary.*

Unless we get an English parliament (and I'd argue London should be separate from the rest of England) with Westminster turning into a proper federal govt these messy things will continue.


*yes that's hugely simplified, bore off with quoting me

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