The Newsroom

BBC National News: Presentation

(April 2008)

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VM
VMPhil
Whilst I think the current graphics may be a bit too basic, it definitely has helped going back to basics.


You say basics but I do think the headline sequence at the start of the bulletins - the Ten O'Clock News in particular - is far too long, you don't need much more than a couple of headlines but we get endless clips and it goes on for ages, sometimes about two minutes. The other week I managed to put the kettle on AND nip to the toilet and came back to find the titles still hadn't started.


I wasn't really talking about the format of the bulletins to be fair, I was talking about the graphics.
SW
Steve Williams
I wasn't really talking about the format of the bulletins to be fair, I was talking about the graphics.


I know, it's just been annoying me for a while and I wanted to shoehorn it in. I like the graphics.
CH
chris_rgu
The 10 on BBC2 tonight, not from the olympic park, but from n6 with Kate Silverton. The opening titles were the ones that the normally use at the TOTH (I.e. without the number 10 there) and no headlines at the start just straight into the news.

EDIT - this isn't the 10! Fiona is just about to present from the olympic park.
WE
Westy2
Was the Ten always scheduled for TWO tonight?

What about the regional late?
AS
Asa Admin
The 10 on BBC2 tonight, not from the olympic park, but from n6 with Kate Silverton. The opening titles were the ones that the normally use at the TOTH (I.e. without the number 10 there) and no headlines at the start just straight into the news.

Not on my BBC Two Confused Looks like they're just delaying it to appear on One shortly.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Look North tweeted earlier to plug the late bully.
IT
itsrobert Founding member
Whilst I think the current graphics may be a bit too basic, it definitely has helped going back to basics.


You say basics but I do think the headline sequence at the start of the bulletins - the Ten O'Clock News in particular - is far too long, you don't need much more than a couple of headlines but we get endless clips and it goes on for ages, sometimes about two minutes. The other week I managed to put the kettle on AND nip to the toilet and came back to find the titles still hadn't started.


I agree with that too. The problem started when they stopped using the fixed bong headline beds. Before 2003 all the headlines were limited to 5 seconds each because the bongs were pre-mixed into the bed (such things were, I believe, played off minidisc back then so they couldn't do fancy things like play one sound effect over another, as SpotOn can easily achieve nowadays). I think starting in 2003 the Ten O'Clock News used to start with the 1 bong bed for the first headline, which was usually slightly extended to about 15 seconds. They'd then run the 3-bong bed off the back of it with a further three 5 second headlines. Gradually, the fixed bong beds were phased out and they just kept re-starting the bed for each new headline. But as time has gone on, the headlines have become longer and longer, leaving us with the rather ridiculous situation now of 2 minute TOTH sequences.

Personally, I prefer short, snappy headlines. I think they have more impact that way. Interestingly, ITN use the same SpotOn playout facility as BBC News and the ITV News bongs are played out over the title bed music at the push of a button. Yet, they seem to keep their headlines sequences down to a suitable length. They certainly don't go on for 2 minutes, even with the titles voiceover and titles end sting included.

As an aside, despite the BBC using SpotOn, I don't actually think the BBC overlay a raw 'bong' (or thunderclap, if you prefer) over the headline bed. I think they still keep re-starting the bed each time as they've done for several years. ITN definitely don't do that; I wonder if it's because the BBC News theme is so punchy that the bongs need to be in time with the music in order to sound professional? It seems re-starting the bed over and over masks the beat somehow. ITV News' headline bed is rather less punchy, so they can get away with playing their bong whenever they want without it being noticeable. Maybe I'm talking rubbish, but it's always made me wonder...
BA
bilky asko
Whilst I think the current graphics may be a bit too basic, it definitely has helped going back to basics.


You say basics but I do think the headline sequence at the start of the bulletins - the Ten O'Clock News in particular - is far too long, you don't need much more than a couple of headlines but we get endless clips and it goes on for ages, sometimes about two minutes. The other week I managed to put the kettle on AND nip to the toilet and came back to find the titles still hadn't started.


I agree with that too. The problem started when they stopped using the fixed bong headline beds. Before 2003 all the headlines were limited to 5 seconds each because the bongs were pre-mixed into the bed (such things were, I believe, played off minidisc back then so they couldn't do fancy things like play one sound effect over another, as SpotOn can easily achieve nowadays). I think starting in 2003 the Ten O'Clock News used to start with the 1 bong bed for the first headline, which was usually slightly extended to about 15 seconds. They'd then run the 3-bong bed off the back of it with a further three 5 second headlines. Gradually, the fixed bong beds were phased out and they just kept re-starting the bed for each new headline. But as time has gone on, the headlines have become longer and longer, leaving us with the rather ridiculous situation now of 2 minute TOTH sequences.

Personally, I prefer short, snappy headlines. I think they have more impact that way. Interestingly, ITN use the same SpotOn playout facility as BBC News and the ITV News bongs are played out over the title bed music at the push of a button. Yet, they seem to keep their headlines sequences down to a suitable length. They certainly don't go on for 2 minutes, even with the titles voiceover and titles end sting included.

As an aside, despite the BBC using SpotOn, I don't actually think the BBC overlay a raw 'bong' (or thunderclap, if you prefer) over the headline bed. I think they still keep re-starting the bed each time as they've done for several years. ITN definitely don't do that; I wonder if it's because the BBC News theme is so punchy that the bongs need to be in time with the music in order to sound professional? It seems re-starting the bed over and over masks the beat somehow. ITV News' headline bed is rather less punchy, so they can get away with playing their bong whenever they want without it being noticeable. Maybe I'm talking rubbish, but it's always made me wonder...


The bong sound effect is a separate sound - perhaps a separate thunderclap was never produced? Of course, your theory on the volume of the drumbeat does sound logical - the ITV one is not only quieter, but it's at a higher tempo than the BBC's, meaning any disparity would go unnoticed. The BBC's bed is loud, and at a lower tempo than ITV's, making timing more crucial - hence why the next thunderclap is timed on the main bulletins to be in time with the beat.
DK
DanielK
Thunderclaps were made for regions, it was one of three tracks put up here. Can only guess that national got one tooo
SK
skynewsfreak
Looks like BBC News music will be getting a revamp when it moves to Broadcasting House:

Ross Fitzpatrick, Director at BBC News tweeted:

Quote:
The new #bbcnews countdown music - astonishing - David Lowe is music god...


Quote:
oh no, I mean the music we have done for when we move to the new broadcasting house - it's just brilliant


http://twitter.com/kaled10

Sorry if it's been mentioned before.
CH
chris
Looks like BBC News music will be getting a revamp when it moves to Broadcasting House:

Ross Fitzpatrick, Director at BBC News tweeted:

Quote:
The new #bbcnews countdown music - astonishing - David Lowe is music god...


Quote:
oh no, I mean the music we have done for when we move to the new broadcasting house - it's just brilliant


http://twitter.com/kaled10

Sorry if it's been mentioned before.


I hope this means we might get something a bit "new" rather than regurgitating the same chord sequence. I like the current countdown, but despite slight variations, it's been pretty much the same since 2005.
EO
eoin
Whilst I think the current graphics may be a bit too basic, it definitely has helped going back to basics.


You say basics but I do think the headline sequence at the start of the bulletins - the Ten O'Clock News in particular - is far too long, you don't need much more than a couple of headlines but we get endless clips and it goes on for ages, sometimes about two minutes. The other week I managed to put the kettle on AND nip to the toilet and came back to find the titles still hadn't started.


I agree with that too. The problem started when they stopped using the fixed bong headline beds. Before 2003 all the headlines were limited to 5 seconds each because the bongs were pre-mixed into the bed (such things were, I believe, played off minidisc back then so they couldn't do fancy things like play one sound effect over another, as SpotOn can easily achieve nowadays). I think starting in 2003 the Ten O'Clock News used to start with the 1 bong bed for the first headline, which was usually slightly extended to about 15 seconds. They'd then run the 3-bong bed off the back of it with a further three 5 second headlines. Gradually, the fixed bong beds were phased out and they just kept re-starting the bed for each new headline. But as time has gone on, the headlines have become longer and longer, leaving us with the rather ridiculous situation now of 2 minute TOTH sequences.

Personally, I prefer short, snappy headlines. I think they have more impact that way. Interestingly, ITN use the same SpotOn playout facility as BBC News and the ITV News bongs are played out over the title bed music at the push of a button. Yet, they seem to keep their headlines sequences down to a suitable length. They certainly don't go on for 2 minutes, even with the titles voiceover and titles end sting included.

Totally agree with all of the above. I get that the intended purpose of extended headline sequences is to pique viewer interest and keep people watching. But sometimes I wonder if it might not have the opposite effect, when it goes on for so long that it gives viewers more opportunity to flick to another channel before the bulletin gets going.

Fixed interval thunderclaps, apart from being more aesthetically pleasing to the small minority of us that care about such things, force the headline writers to write snappy headlines, in a similar manner to Twitter's 140 characters. Without this, headlines can sometimes be unnecessarily long-winded. On the Ten in particular, Huw Edwards regularly goes into far too much detail about a top story that's going to be rehashed a couple of minutes afterwards.

A pacey headline sequence is far more attention-grabbing IMO, and if viewer retention is such a concern, a Coming Up sequence immediately after the first story should do the trick. I realise that someone's probably done viewer research into this, and the BBC didn't just decide on longer sequences on a whim, but I still think it's a shame that they seem to keep getting longer and longer.

ITV News' headline bed is rather less punchy, so they can get away with playing their bong whenever they want without it being noticeable.

The original bed from their 1999-2004 look is interesting as it's the polar opposite, with the music completely intertwined with the bongs. Presumably they changed it towards the end for more flexibility, but of course the later bed completely lacked the impact of the original.

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