DV
Just watched Brum and Black Country - seems a good start - and countdown lovers just have to be satisfied with a full minute countdown on offer.
UB
What about BBC West? Not targeting this at the content producers, but the local WIL sites are a mess... the geography does not work.
Whatever, Gary. You clearly know what I do for work and are now trying to wind me up, so I'm not going to both carrying on talking with you. I could explain why those regions are as they are, but it seems a waste of time with you.
GaryC posted:
What about BBC West? Not targeting this at the content producers, but the local WIL sites are a mess... the geography does not work.
Whatever, Gary. You clearly know what I do for work and are now trying to wind me up, so I'm not going to both carrying on talking with you. I could explain why those regions are as they are, but it seems a waste of time with you.
DU
Where I don't agree is that they should try and pretend they're delivering something that they're not. We haven't yet got the infrastructure to deliver true ultralocal TV cheaply enough.
When we do, regional TV news is dead.
I don't see any problem. Perhaps in years to come it'll boil down to those 250 areas, but in the meantime this is a start!!!
And this is where you completely misunderstand my point. Had they been planning to launch 60 local streams on the basis of ultralocal TV- i.e. lets say 10 for Birmingham, 4 for Coventry etc., this trial would have a point.
But it doesn't.
Because the BBC can't be seen to not want to roll this out the whole country.
All they're doing by having a stream entitled "Birmingham" is making a mockery of their trial. They now have
-Regional TV, which they say isn't local enough
-"Local TV" = City/County TV which they say is community broadcasting (and it's clearly not).
One of the most confused BBC schemes I think I've ever seen.
It really doesn't know what it's trying to achieve and therefore the trial results will be utterly pointless.
The future is ultralocal TV- the BBC are wasting our money with this trial.
Uncle Bruce posted:
Dunedin posted:
Where I don't agree is that they should try and pretend they're delivering something that they're not. We haven't yet got the infrastructure to deliver true ultralocal TV cheaply enough.
When we do, regional TV news is dead.
I don't see any problem. Perhaps in years to come it'll boil down to those 250 areas, but in the meantime this is a start!!!
And this is where you completely misunderstand my point. Had they been planning to launch 60 local streams on the basis of ultralocal TV- i.e. lets say 10 for Birmingham, 4 for Coventry etc., this trial would have a point.
But it doesn't.
Because the BBC can't be seen to not want to roll this out the whole country.
All they're doing by having a stream entitled "Birmingham" is making a mockery of their trial. They now have
-Regional TV, which they say isn't local enough
-"Local TV" = City/County TV which they say is community broadcasting (and it's clearly not).
One of the most confused BBC schemes I think I've ever seen.
It really doesn't know what it's trying to achieve and therefore the trial results will be utterly pointless.
The future is ultralocal TV- the BBC are wasting our money with this trial.
TV
Where I don't agree is that they should try and pretend they're delivering something that they're not. We haven't yet got the infrastructure to deliver true ultralocal TV cheaply enough.
When we do, regional TV news is dead.
I don't see any problem. Perhaps in years to come it'll boil down to those 250 areas, but in the meantime this is a start!!!
And this is where you completely misunderstand my point. Had they been planning to launch 60 local streams on the basis of ultralocal TV- i.e. lets say 10 for Birmingham, 4 for Coventry etc., this trial would have a point.
But it doesn't.
Because the BBC can't be seen to not want to roll this out the whole country.
All they're doing by having a stream entitled "Birmingham" is making a mockery of their trial. They now have
-Regional TV, which they say isn't local enough
-"Local TV" = City/County TV which they say is community broadcasting (and it's clearly not).
One of the most confused BBC schemes I think I've ever seen.
It really doesn't know what it's trying to achieve and therefore the trial results will be utterly pointless.
The future is ultralocal TV- the BBC are wasting our money with this trial.
have you ever listened to the news on a community RSL? the several i have heard simply carry city-level stories ... i mean how would you fill a 10 minute, updated bulletin of news from an area the size of 2 parliamentary constituencies? how many people live, work and spend all their leisure time in the same parliamentary constituency? not many. event local weekly newspapers straddle between a couple of constituencies and only manage to fill 1 edition a week - where on earth do you suggest they find enough news to fill ultra local news?
the current setup seems logical to me. i do want to know about the news in my city, but i don't want to know about events up in stoke or down in hereford (and vice versa i should imagine).
tvmercia
Founding member
Dunedin posted:
Uncle Bruce posted:
Dunedin posted:
Where I don't agree is that they should try and pretend they're delivering something that they're not. We haven't yet got the infrastructure to deliver true ultralocal TV cheaply enough.
When we do, regional TV news is dead.
I don't see any problem. Perhaps in years to come it'll boil down to those 250 areas, but in the meantime this is a start!!!
And this is where you completely misunderstand my point. Had they been planning to launch 60 local streams on the basis of ultralocal TV- i.e. lets say 10 for Birmingham, 4 for Coventry etc., this trial would have a point.
But it doesn't.
Because the BBC can't be seen to not want to roll this out the whole country.
All they're doing by having a stream entitled "Birmingham" is making a mockery of their trial. They now have
-Regional TV, which they say isn't local enough
-"Local TV" = City/County TV which they say is community broadcasting (and it's clearly not).
One of the most confused BBC schemes I think I've ever seen.
It really doesn't know what it's trying to achieve and therefore the trial results will be utterly pointless.
The future is ultralocal TV- the BBC are wasting our money with this trial.
the current setup seems logical to me. i do want to know about the news in my city, but i don't want to know about events up in stoke or down in hereford (and vice versa i should imagine).
)
DU
Where I don't agree is that they should try and pretend they're delivering something that they're not. We haven't yet got the infrastructure to deliver true ultralocal TV cheaply enough.
When we do, regional TV news is dead.
I don't see any problem. Perhaps in years to come it'll boil down to those 250 areas, but in the meantime this is a start!!!
And this is where you completely misunderstand my point. Had they been planning to launch 60 local streams on the basis of ultralocal TV- i.e. lets say 10 for Birmingham, 4 for Coventry etc., this trial would have a point.
But it doesn't.
Because the BBC can't be seen to not want to roll this out the whole country.
All they're doing by having a stream entitled "Birmingham" is making a mockery of their trial. They now have
-Regional TV, which they say isn't local enough
-"Local TV" = City/County TV which they say is community broadcasting (and it's clearly not).
One of the most confused BBC schemes I think I've ever seen.
It really doesn't know what it's trying to achieve and therefore the trial results will be utterly pointless.
The future is ultralocal TV- the BBC are wasting our money with this trial.
have you ever listened to the news on a community RSL? the several i have heard simply carry city-level stories ... i mean how would you fill a 10 minute, updated bulletin of news from an area the size of 2 parliamentary constituencies? how many people live, work and spend all their leisure time in the same parliamentary constituency? not many. event local weekly newspapers straddle between a couple of constituencies and only manage to fill 1 edition a week - where on earth do you suggest they find enough news to fill ultra local news?
the current setup seems logical to me. i do want to know about the news in my city, but i don't want to know about events up in stoke or down in hereford (and vice versa i should imagine).
True community broadcasting- ultralocal TV- doesn't just involve news. Its content is driven by those communities and their respective talents.
I think it's a load of b0llocks but then I think that about regional TV news. The point is that I also realise it's inevitable that it's going to happen.
Take the BBC's trial- add together the time of all the "news reports" from the various "local TV" regions that they've decided make up the West Midlands.
How much longer is it than "Midlands Today"?
My point is that they're not really generating significant quantities of new content because the basis of the trial is so utterly flawed.
"Community broadcasting" my arse
tvmercia posted:
Dunedin posted:
Uncle Bruce posted:
Dunedin posted:
Where I don't agree is that they should try and pretend they're delivering something that they're not. We haven't yet got the infrastructure to deliver true ultralocal TV cheaply enough.
When we do, regional TV news is dead.
I don't see any problem. Perhaps in years to come it'll boil down to those 250 areas, but in the meantime this is a start!!!
And this is where you completely misunderstand my point. Had they been planning to launch 60 local streams on the basis of ultralocal TV- i.e. lets say 10 for Birmingham, 4 for Coventry etc., this trial would have a point.
But it doesn't.
Because the BBC can't be seen to not want to roll this out the whole country.
All they're doing by having a stream entitled "Birmingham" is making a mockery of their trial. They now have
-Regional TV, which they say isn't local enough
-"Local TV" = City/County TV which they say is community broadcasting (and it's clearly not).
One of the most confused BBC schemes I think I've ever seen.
It really doesn't know what it's trying to achieve and therefore the trial results will be utterly pointless.
The future is ultralocal TV- the BBC are wasting our money with this trial.
the current setup seems logical to me. i do want to know about the news in my city, but i don't want to know about events up in stoke or down in hereford (and vice versa i should imagine).
True community broadcasting- ultralocal TV- doesn't just involve news. Its content is driven by those communities and their respective talents.
I think it's a load of b0llocks but then I think that about regional TV news. The point is that I also realise it's inevitable that it's going to happen.
Take the BBC's trial- add together the time of all the "news reports" from the various "local TV" regions that they've decided make up the West Midlands.
How much longer is it than "Midlands Today"?
My point is that they're not really generating significant quantities of new content because the basis of the trial is so utterly flawed.
"Community broadcasting" my arse
TV
there really isn't the infrastructure, demand or content for ultra local tv.
you may think regional news is a load of b ollocks - but the viewing public disagree with you. there is an appetite for it, as proven by the viewing figures. perhaps you are out of step with wider opinion.
well 5 vjs in each area x 6 areas = 30 potential stories per day. that's more than midlands today could ever dream of providing.
tvmercia
Founding member
Dunedin posted:
True community broadcasting- ultralocal TV- doesn't just involve news. Its content is driven by those communities and their respective talents.
I think it's a load of b0llocks but then I think that about regional TV news. The point is that I also realise it's inevitable that it's going to happen.
I think it's a load of b0llocks but then I think that about regional TV news. The point is that I also realise it's inevitable that it's going to happen.
there really isn't the infrastructure, demand or content for ultra local tv.
you may think regional news is a load of b ollocks - but the viewing public disagree with you. there is an appetite for it, as proven by the viewing figures. perhaps you are out of step with wider opinion.
Dunedin posted:
Take the BBC's trial- add together the time of all the "news reports" from the various "local TV" regions that they've decided make up the West Midlands.
How much longer is it than "Midlands Today"?
My point is that they're not really generating significant quantities of new content because the basis of the trial is so utterly flawed.
"Community broadcasting" my arse
How much longer is it than "Midlands Today"?
My point is that they're not really generating significant quantities of new content because the basis of the trial is so utterly flawed.
"Community broadcasting" my arse
well 5 vjs in each area x 6 areas = 30 potential stories per day. that's more than midlands today could ever dream of providing.
DE
Not in the plans I'm afraid! The idea is that this is a rolling series of reports and sequences rather than 10 minute traditional bulletins. It's a shame, but they are trying to achieve this on a limited budget and with limited resources (human and technical). Bear in mind that the district Video Journalists are based in Local Radio Stations. While some do have a TV inject facility, AFAIK, few of them have even a newsroom camera let alone a studio with a CSO cloth and an associated vision mixer. Even at the Mailbox, I hear that there's only one TV studio (for Midlands Today) and a newsroom camera - there's no second studio for CSO presentation.
Jaimé Alexandéz posted:
Can they not shove up some nondescript reader in front of a CSO to front the bulletins? Get a bit sick of just seeing the slides.
Not in the plans I'm afraid! The idea is that this is a rolling series of reports and sequences rather than 10 minute traditional bulletins. It's a shame, but they are trying to achieve this on a limited budget and with limited resources (human and technical). Bear in mind that the district Video Journalists are based in Local Radio Stations. While some do have a TV inject facility, AFAIK, few of them have even a newsroom camera let alone a studio with a CSO cloth and an associated vision mixer. Even at the Mailbox, I hear that there's only one TV studio (for Midlands Today) and a newsroom camera - there's no second studio for CSO presentation.
NG
Not in the plans I'm afraid! The idea is that this is a rolling series of reports and sequences rather than 10 minute traditional bulletins. It's a shame, but they are trying to achieve this on a limited budget and with limited resources (human and technical). Bear in mind that the district Video Journalists are based in Local Radio Stations. While some do have a TV inject facility, AFAIK, few of them have even a newsroom camera let alone a studio with a CSO cloth and an associated vision mixer. Even at the Mailbox, I hear that there's only one TV studio (for Midlands Today) and a newsroom camera - there's no second studio for CSO presentation.
Though you could shoot the links for CSO on a camcorder and then do the key in Final Cut/Avid etc. just like many shows do. They look to be shooting on HDV camcorders (probably in DV mode), but you'd get OK-ish results this way, though care would need to be taken setting up the lighting.
Have to say the content has been far from gripping for me so far, though I'm not a regular local paper reader either, so the concept of local (rather than regional) news probably isn't to my taste. The craft and production values are shockingly poor though - and the worry is that these will become "acceptable" and spread to mainstream output...
noggin
Founding member
deejay posted:
Jaimé Alexandéz posted:
Can they not shove up some nondescript reader in front of a CSO to front the bulletins? Get a bit sick of just seeing the slides.
Not in the plans I'm afraid! The idea is that this is a rolling series of reports and sequences rather than 10 minute traditional bulletins. It's a shame, but they are trying to achieve this on a limited budget and with limited resources (human and technical). Bear in mind that the district Video Journalists are based in Local Radio Stations. While some do have a TV inject facility, AFAIK, few of them have even a newsroom camera let alone a studio with a CSO cloth and an associated vision mixer. Even at the Mailbox, I hear that there's only one TV studio (for Midlands Today) and a newsroom camera - there's no second studio for CSO presentation.
Though you could shoot the links for CSO on a camcorder and then do the key in Final Cut/Avid etc. just like many shows do. They look to be shooting on HDV camcorders (probably in DV mode), but you'd get OK-ish results this way, though care would need to be taken setting up the lighting.
Have to say the content has been far from gripping for me so far, though I'm not a regular local paper reader either, so the concept of local (rather than regional) news probably isn't to my taste. The craft and production values are shockingly poor though - and the worry is that these will become "acceptable" and spread to mainstream output...
AJ
I think you actually have to understand how this trial is being put together before you declare it a waste of money.
The BBC employs a "community producer" which works on collating content for their area - whether it be Shropshire, Staffordshire or whereever.
The content actually comes from local people. Shaky Cam TV - as someone described it is half correct in a way. For example, for the Staffordshire area, Staffordshire University has been asked to produce content for the trial.
We have been asked to produce content in 16:9 format, so I'd expect that the service will be going widescreen in the future (if it hasn't done so already - not had a chance to look at it yet.)
The content is put together as 1/2/3/4 minute self contained featurettes which can be put together much like a jigsaw puzzle - the content can then be changed and rotated throughout the day.
I have been involved with creating some content for the trial, and there's absolutely no money in it for me or any of my colleagues whatsoever.
The only real money involved is with employing the producers, editors, and the technicians who put the service on the net/digital tv.
Now I know you're all going to bombard me with the actual costs of doing such a thing - but I'm not concerned with the whole complete accounts of the BBC and the accounts regarding this particular trial. I only posted to give a rough idea of the actual workings of the trail in terms of content production.
**Gets fire extinguisher out ready for flaming**
The BBC employs a "community producer" which works on collating content for their area - whether it be Shropshire, Staffordshire or whereever.
The content actually comes from local people. Shaky Cam TV - as someone described it is half correct in a way. For example, for the Staffordshire area, Staffordshire University has been asked to produce content for the trial.
We have been asked to produce content in 16:9 format, so I'd expect that the service will be going widescreen in the future (if it hasn't done so already - not had a chance to look at it yet.)
The content is put together as 1/2/3/4 minute self contained featurettes which can be put together much like a jigsaw puzzle - the content can then be changed and rotated throughout the day.
I have been involved with creating some content for the trial, and there's absolutely no money in it for me or any of my colleagues whatsoever.
The only real money involved is with employing the producers, editors, and the technicians who put the service on the net/digital tv.
Now I know you're all going to bombard me with the actual costs of doing such a thing - but I'm not concerned with the whole complete accounts of the BBC and the accounts regarding this particular trial. I only posted to give a rough idea of the actual workings of the trail in terms of content production.
**Gets fire extinguisher out ready for flaming**
AB
I think it's a great idea. It offers local news for people, which is great for me because I live in the London region, but I don't actually live IN London, so I get news about London constantly. Not only that, but it offers local employment opportunities