DO
Are you wanting to include the leaders of the Bus Pass Elvis, Monster Raving Loony and all the other single issue / local / p*** take parties in these debates too?
The fact of the matter is that nearly every UK citizen has the right to set up a party if they want, and should be treated equally in the eyes of the media...
But if we only have the debates with every party leader appearing, there could be hundreds of people taking part, which not only would be ridiculous in itself, it simply wouldn't make for watchable television.
I think we should base appearances on the ability to vote for that party:
- no appearance on the UK wide debates unless you have candidates in at least 80% of westminster seats
- separate debates for the nations - again 80% to get a position
- separate debates for each English broadcast region - possibly lower, but still a percentage based appearance rule
I don't think popularity of a party should come into whether you get chosen, the ability to actually vote for that party is far more important. SNP wouldn't appear on the UK debate, because their policies are not relevant to the vast majority of people trying to choose who to vote for. Having a figure placed on the number of candidates would make it simple to bring up the list of parties, without all this arguing about who's important enough to appear.
I also think we need to have a regional / national level debate given at least equal prominence, because (despite what the media like to think) we don't vote for a party, or a leader, we vote for a person, local to us. Those local candidates should be given as much a chance to debate their credentials as the leaders. This is one area where local TV could actually be very good (although I feel the idea of Nick Clegg appearing in a debate on Sheffield Live would be as cringeworthy as it is hilarious).
or the broadcasters can finally respect that this is a democratic country and show all leaders in the debate
Are you wanting to include the leaders of the Bus Pass Elvis, Monster Raving Loony and all the other single issue / local / p*** take parties in these debates too?
The fact of the matter is that nearly every UK citizen has the right to set up a party if they want, and should be treated equally in the eyes of the media...
But if we only have the debates with every party leader appearing, there could be hundreds of people taking part, which not only would be ridiculous in itself, it simply wouldn't make for watchable television.
I think we should base appearances on the ability to vote for that party:
- no appearance on the UK wide debates unless you have candidates in at least 80% of westminster seats
- separate debates for the nations - again 80% to get a position
- separate debates for each English broadcast region - possibly lower, but still a percentage based appearance rule
I don't think popularity of a party should come into whether you get chosen, the ability to actually vote for that party is far more important. SNP wouldn't appear on the UK debate, because their policies are not relevant to the vast majority of people trying to choose who to vote for. Having a figure placed on the number of candidates would make it simple to bring up the list of parties, without all this arguing about who's important enough to appear.
I also think we need to have a regional / national level debate given at least equal prominence, because (despite what the media like to think) we don't vote for a party, or a leader, we vote for a person, local to us. Those local candidates should be given as much a chance to debate their credentials as the leaders. This is one area where local TV could actually be very good (although I feel the idea of Nick Clegg appearing in a debate on Sheffield Live would be as cringeworthy as it is hilarious).
SE
Square Eyes
Founding member
Have the broadcasters given any reasoning behind the exclusion of the DUP ? Given they are the 4th largest party in the Parliament, and other regional parties have an invite they have a legitimate claim.
Lib Dems now wanting in on the 2 party debate, as a party in government.
And George Galloway wants in. I think Channel 5 should come in and offer a debate for Galloway vs Farage. Would be the best of the lot.
Lib Dems now wanting in on the 2 party debate, as a party in government.
And George Galloway wants in. I think Channel 5 should come in and offer a debate for Galloway vs Farage. Would be the best of the lot.
Last edited by Square Eyes on 23 January 2015 6:12pm
DT
While I am in favour of multi-party debates over presidential-style or no debates, it does strike me as odd that Plaid Cymru are being included. While they are a separate party and have substantial support in Wales, they do sit in a bloc with the near identical policied SNP in the House of Commons.
Personally my proposal would have been...
Sky&C4: CON/LAB
ITV: CON/LAB/LD/UKIP/GRN
BBC: CON/LAB/LD/UKIP/GRN
with possibly the SNP in BBC & ITV given that they are likely to be the third largest party in the Commons. But given that minor parties also deserve a say I think that there should be another debate that features the significant minor parties, i.e. ones that are standing in several seats (lets say 25). This debate would not feature any of the major parties but give minor parties the opportunity to put their views across. This would include parties such as NHA/BNP/RESPECT/ED/CPA/TUSC and maybe a few others. It doesn't even have to be a standalone debate - it could easily be as part of Newsnight or one of the Daily Politics debates that they have on different topics.
Furthermore are we still expecting to see the Chancellor's Debate and if so will that include LD/UKIP/GRN etc.? Also will we see the national debates taking shape like this...
NI (BBC NI & UTV Debates): DUP/SF/SDLP/UUP/ALL (Maybe TUV)
Scotland (BBC, STV & Sky Debates): SNP/LAB/CON/LD/UKIP/SGP
Wales (BBC, ITV & Sky Debates): LAB/CON/PC/LD/UKIP
Also some on here have mentioned an idea of English Regions debates - I assume that each of those would include local candidates from LAB/CON/LD/UKIP/GRN?
Personally my proposal would have been...
Sky&C4: CON/LAB
ITV: CON/LAB/LD/UKIP/GRN
BBC: CON/LAB/LD/UKIP/GRN
with possibly the SNP in BBC & ITV given that they are likely to be the third largest party in the Commons. But given that minor parties also deserve a say I think that there should be another debate that features the significant minor parties, i.e. ones that are standing in several seats (lets say 25). This debate would not feature any of the major parties but give minor parties the opportunity to put their views across. This would include parties such as NHA/BNP/RESPECT/ED/CPA/TUSC and maybe a few others. It doesn't even have to be a standalone debate - it could easily be as part of Newsnight or one of the Daily Politics debates that they have on different topics.
Furthermore are we still expecting to see the Chancellor's Debate and if so will that include LD/UKIP/GRN etc.? Also will we see the national debates taking shape like this...
NI (BBC NI & UTV Debates): DUP/SF/SDLP/UUP/ALL (Maybe TUV)
Scotland (BBC, STV & Sky Debates): SNP/LAB/CON/LD/UKIP/SGP
Wales (BBC, ITV & Sky Debates): LAB/CON/PC/LD/UKIP
Also some on here have mentioned an idea of English Regions debates - I assume that each of those would include local candidates from LAB/CON/LD/UKIP/GRN?
DT
While the DUP do have a case, if they are included you have to also include Sinn Féin who gained more votes in 2010 and in the 2014 EU Elections. While it could be argued that SF MPs don't take their seats, you would be hard pushed to exclude them if you include the DUP. UUP, SDLP and Alliance though wouldn't need to be included as they are allied to one of the major parties each anyway.
George Galloway is interesting in that he is hinting at legal action. However Respect have no case on that front given that they are fielding very few candidates and don't poll well.
Have the broadcasters given any reasoning behind the exclusion of the DUP ? Given they are the 4th largest party in the Parliament, and other regional parties have an invite they have a legitimate claim.
While the DUP do have a case, if they are included you have to also include Sinn Féin who gained more votes in 2010 and in the 2014 EU Elections. While it could be argued that SF MPs don't take their seats, you would be hard pushed to exclude them if you include the DUP. UUP, SDLP and Alliance though wouldn't need to be included as they are allied to one of the major parties each anyway.
George Galloway is interesting in that he is hinting at legal action. However Respect have no case on that front given that they are fielding very few candidates and don't poll well.
VM
Not to the extent that having a multiple-leader debate wouldn't be possible at all. There are so many debate formats to choose from - there's a good chance you'll find one that works here.
Of course, in fact this is quite an exciting time really because the debate format here hasn't settled down into a regular format and the broadcasters are experimenting. It's just that this was dangerously close to becoming another one of those "here's what international broadcasters do so the UK should just copy them exactly because they know best" threads
What's right for Denmark's viewers and political system is not necessarily what's right for the UK.
Not to the extent that having a multiple-leader debate wouldn't be possible at all. There are so many debate formats to choose from - there's a good chance you'll find one that works here.
Of course, in fact this is quite an exciting time really because the debate format here hasn't settled down into a regular format and the broadcasters are experimenting. It's just that this was dangerously close to becoming another one of those "here's what international broadcasters do so the UK should just copy them exactly because they know best" threads
VM
Nigel Farage tells @GranadaReports the new TV debate format is a "dog's dinner" & "they'll be popping champagne corks in Downing St tonight.
— Daniel Hewitt (@DanielHewittITV) January 23, 2015
CA
WWW.twitter.com/patrickfoster2/status/558290329829638145
Interesting piece from last week. I don't think it has been mentioned. One of the stumbling blocks with the C4/ Sky debate is that Labour are objecting to Paxman chairing the debate due to him calling himself a "one nation Tory" after leaving Newsnight.
Interesting piece from last week. I don't think it has been mentioned. One of the stumbling blocks with the C4/ Sky debate is that Labour are objecting to Paxman chairing the debate due to him calling himself a "one nation Tory" after leaving Newsnight.
Last edited by Cando on 28 January 2015 4:39pm
LJ
Personally, I can't believe that Paxman got the gig over Jon Snow in the first instance. Paxman has no real association with C4 and I would have though C4 would have wanted one of their own to conduct the debate.
WWW.twitter.com/patrickfoster2/status/558290329829638145
Interesting piece from last week. I don't think it has been mentioned. One of the stumbling blocks with the C4/ Sky debate is that Labour are objecting to Paxman chairing the debate due to him calling himself a "one nation Tory" after leaving Newsnight.
Interesting piece from last week. I don't think it has been mentioned. One of the stumbling blocks with the C4/ Sky debate is that Labour are objecting to Paxman chairing the debate due to him calling himself a "one nation Tory" after leaving Newsnight.
Personally, I can't believe that Paxman got the gig over Jon Snow in the first instance. Paxman has no real association with C4 and I would have though C4 would have wanted one of their own to conduct the debate.
SP
I strongly favour the former option. In this country we vote for the individual local candidate, it's not a presidential system where we vote for the leader. I think it's very telling that in the 2010 election, not a single independent candidate was elected, and I have a suspicion that the Leaders' debates putting the idea into people's heads that they only had three choices contributed to that. These debates are undemocratic.
Well dear - this is 2015. You have a choice. We can either not do these debates, or the broadcasters can finally respect that this is a democratic country and show all leaders in the debate.
I strongly favour the former option. In this country we vote for the individual local candidate, it's not a presidential system where we vote for the leader. I think it's very telling that in the 2010 election, not a single independent candidate was elected, and I have a suspicion that the Leaders' debates putting the idea into people's heads that they only had three choices contributed to that. These debates are undemocratic.