BBC Two 2009: A few ideas (updated)

Wasn't sure whether to post this in the BBC Two thread or here but to keep the former on topic I'll post it here.

youtube.com/watch?v=4qlUHDUgjnE

Basically, just a few simple ideas to show how the current BBC Two idents could have been re-edited without the box. The first lot use a centred, 1997 style strip logo, the second use a centred BBC logo, ala 1991 and the last batch sees the BBC logo placed to the left of the 2.

To accommodate the first two logo layouts, the idents have been zoomed in slightly to centre the 2.

Some caps:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/2.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/2b.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/2c.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/3.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/4.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/5.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/6.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/7.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/8.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/9.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/10.jpg

Opinions more than welcome.

I like the centred ones, the 1991 and 1997 versions. I'm not keen on the left-of-centre ones.

One other comment, the gaps apear to be too big, especially on the Mirror ones.

I like the 'BBC TWO' mocks.

I think the centre aligned BBC logo is too similar to the one they use at the start of BBC programmes.

The left aligned BBC logo looks odd.

Nice little touch of using Avenir for the Subtitles tag, too.

All of your mocks are far superior to what we've had since last week - especially the size of the Subtitles tag!

I actually quite like the left-aligned one, personally, but probably only because it works in exactly the same way as the old left-aligned box did. The only problematic one, of course, is Mirror because of the position of the '2'. In addition, having the box fade on halfway through somewhat defeats the purpose of the revised idents, presuming that they're now meant to have the logo come on as soon as possible.

I think that the BBC TWO strip is the best, though - IMO it carries a bit more on-screen 'weight' than the discrete BBC logo, which is important because (a) the '2' isn't on-screen from the start and (b) the '2' isn't in the same place on each ident (though I can see you've gone to great lengths to make it as central as possible on your video!). The word 'consistency' has been mentioned a lot in the BBC Two thread, too, and as all the other channels have 'word-based' logos it obviously makes sense to keep the 'TWO'.

On the other hand, the BBC logo alone gives the Nations more flexibility to do their own thing (I don't want to hijack your thread, Jonny, but something like this could work, on the idents at least). I also quite liked the trailer endboard on this video from last year, which would work well with Nations-specific logos.

Great work as usual jon!

Now I do like that: this

That is very possible and would highly professional. I am all in favour of using a " | "

The left-aligned batch are my least favourite too. I included that idea as it is one which is often touted in the BBC Two thread. Works well in some idents (Zoetrope, Sunroof) and not-so-well in others (Mirror, Cappuccino).


Quite nice that. I have a few ideas for the nations myself, along the same line of thought as yours ie using the nation's name/logo beside the 2 rather than a 'BBC Two Wales/Scotland/NI' tag (although the station would still be namechecked as 'BBC Two x' and not 'BBC x on 2' which always sounded cumbersome imo).

Thanks for the feedback posted so far!

Yes - good ideas Jonny, I think you've got logo / Subtitles flag positioning and sizes down well compared to what's been aired now and in the recent past; for BBC2 pres now, the bar's been set pretty low, let's be honest.

From a cross-channel point of view, a 'BBC TWO' logo is the only workable option - and the proposed version here sits rather well alongside BBC One's logo as used on symbols & trails, also horizontal, which is a plus. Within the realm of unboxed logos, that one is the 5-star idea and IMO cannot be bettered in any conceivable way.

And while I'd rule the other BBC-only variants out for the difficulty they pose across channels, they do a great job of highlighting why the October 2008 planned changes with a right-aligned BBC logo were especially illogical, and seemingly made without thought - as all of these ideas here are superior, the first one of which being miles better than what the BBC are using now. Their swapping of the box from left to right side is utterly pointless, and if such a tweak pre-2009 had been posted on here, I suspect it would not have rated anywhere near as highly as your first set of logos above.

Effort doesn't really factor into these, they're just various logo overlays rather than a unique mock (and with the various different ideas, a single rating is not suitable - so I won't vote), but generally, well done for demonstrating how it could and should have been done - if the first idea is your personal favourite, then the BBC would be better off hiring you to make pres decisions!

What are your views on the endbords? Tweak the text? Completely change them? Or just revert them to the previous set?

All vastly superior to what's on screen now. My only problem with the centred DOGs is they look a bit too close to the '2', with the exception of Mirror and Cappucino where the base of the '2' is higher on screen.

I think the left-aligned DOGs would work better further up the screen. ISTR someone a while ago mocking up a version with the BBC logo vertically centred and to the left. Looked quite good from what I remember.

I've had a go at mocking up a continuity link using idea 1:

youtube.com/watch?v=HrpmdJ07DQA

It's been said many times before that BBC Two is currently going through a bit of an identity crisis. In my opinion, what it desperately needs is its presentation tying together. It needs to return to some form of consistency.

I wanted to take a back to basics approach and toyed with the idea of creating a new 1997-2007 style look but instead decided upon something a bit more visually interesting.

So: the BBC Two logo is present throughout the trail, bottom centre a la BBC One, in the same position as it appears in the mock idents (although slightly smaller). The trail endboard is now one of the BBC Two idents, shifted to the right to allow space for the programme title, date and time and the BBC Two logo, which moves to the left of the screen (hummed and hawed about this but I suppose the BBC One logo moves during trails too!). A gap is left between the latter two elements to allow room for extra info such as BBC iPlayer and/or BBC HD availability.

The idents used are what I consider to be the best match for the advertised programme. I think with the vast range of scenarios featured in the BBC Two idents, this would be a practical idea.

In an ideal world, the endboards would be made up of original clips related to the idents rather than the idents themselves and there would be a more advanced transition from conclusion of the trail to the endboard. I had planned to have the endboard slide in from the right but I couldn't get this not to look like a cheap and cheesy WMM effect.

As well as being visually interesting, I feel the use of the idents in the other presentation creates the sense that everything is part of the same presentation package, rather than the mish-mash of ideas we have now, and whilst the previous set of endboards were superior to the current lot and complimented the idents quite well they became boring very quickly (mainly because they decided to use that same 'hey, let's have the 2 come down on the video and that'll do' trick *everywhere*).

Anyway, some caps:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/12.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/13.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/2007TopGearDog/14.jpg

With thanks to Paul Clark for the Mirror sting.

The Promo's look much classier! I wish this is what the BBC did do as it looks much better than what is used now!

I really like those.

However, I think the trail endboards in your video are a bit too much. Personally I'd rather see them go back to putting the programme information over the trailer itself, and do away with the whole idea of having endboards at all. Same for BBC One as well.