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'Rota' talk on this site

Split from TV Forum: New for (the middle of) 2020

UK
UKnews
Speaking personally - the sport thread is one of the main reasons I regularly visit here, one of the threads I’m most likely to contribute to. Although there are some unnecessary posts I do find it a good way to keep track of (and discuss) sports rights and presentation. I’d hope it’d be able to stay open, I feel it’s on topic enough, does move along and doesn’t clutter up the front page with numerous smaller threads. Bigger events in that area do tend to get split off into their own threads, I think that’s the right approach for that subject at least.
IT
itsrobert Founding member Granada North West Today
Asa posted:
Fundamentally there's a real reluctance to create new topics and I'm not entirely sure why. Someone could probably do a whole Ted talk on the psychology of it.


I'll put it succinctly and be entirely honest about how I feel here - I'd say it's as simple as: people don't want to have other members kick off at them for 'doing it wrong'.

I've seen - many times - someone set up a thread only to be given sarcastic comments in response along the lines of 'there's already a thread for this Rolling Eyes ', or 'why have you set up a new thread just to say this? Shocked'

Personally, if you'd asked me (before TV Forum's very own version of 'lockdown') about my view on creating a new thread, I'd've told you that I wouldn't dare open up a new thread for this very reason.

I fear this change in advice about threads is very confusing for the members who weren't here to remember the 'good old days' of this forum's creation in the early noughties and have only ever known the large, general, programme-specific threads like the GMB, Loose Women, and This Morning ones.

Spot on. I agree wholeheartedly. It's the usual suspects who jump all over people who dare to create a new thread that are the problem. I may be wrong here, but isn't that what the administrator and moderators are for? Who promoted these thread monitors? If you think a thread is unnecessary, don't post in it to say so and therefore derail it immediately. Use the 'report this post' feature to highlight it to the moderators whose job it is to sort out these things. Or, alternatively, think to yourself 'there are bigger things in life to worry about' and just let it go. Is it really the end of the world if someone creates a bit of a useless thread? It'll disappear before you know it.

Asa posted:
Fundamentally there's a real reluctance to create new topics and I'm not entirely sure why. Someone could probably do a whole Ted talk on the psychology of it.


I'll put it succinctly and be entirely honest about how I feel here - I'd say it's as simple as: people don't want to have other members kick off at them for 'doing it wrong'.

I've seen - many times - someone set up a thread only to be given sarcastic comments in response along the lines of 'there's already a thread for this Rolling Eyes ', or 'why have you set up a new thread just to say this? Shocked'

Personally, if you'd asked me (before TV Forum's very own version of 'lockdown') about my view on creating a new thread, I'd've told you that I wouldn't dare open up a new thread for this very reason.


Forum Etiquette generally dictates that its better to post in an existing thread than to start a new one, but as I've bored everybody with previously in the thread there are reasons not to do this (plus on some forums the answer to the question can be found via the search button and on some forums its preferred to make a new thread, but the general rule unless advised otherwise is to where possible to post in an existing thread). Also it used to be generally accepted practice to lurk for a long while to figure out the culture of the board before you join, but these days, that rarely happens, and once they've seen the Requests forum, patience of lurking goes out the window.

People are too used to the way that Facebook, Twitter and Whatsapp work when it comes to the way they lay messages out. Twitter just shows everything as a flat form response to an initial tweet and doesn't "thread" as such, and Whatsapp doesn't have any concept of threads, its just message after message with the occasional quote.

So Joe Public comes to a proper web forum like this, and they haven't a clue how to use it properly, or at least in the way forums are supposed to work. As the rota threads have shown they get treated like its a slow motion chat room.

Sad as it is, things have moved on. Forum etiquette, or even general netiquette, are so 1990s. That's not to say that we can't expect a certain level of respect, decency and coherence from contributors, but most people these days have such busy lives that they aren't likely to spend ages searching forums for answers. And, in many cases, posting a question/topic that might have been done to death before often leads to a brand new, interesting discussion ensuing. Take, for instance, the current September 11th thread. Nineteen years after the event and after countless threads on the same topic over the years, this year's one has been very interesting and is still going.

In terms of posting in an existing thread where possible, yes, do so but use common sense. If there are two threads about GMB having a new split screen, that's ridiculous and the mods should merge them. But it's fine to post another thread about another aspect of GMB to prompt a discussion about that. The mega threads don't help this because they have been seen as mandatory for all discussion about their subject, combined with self-appointed thread police jumping all over anybody who tries to create a new thread.

That's why I think we should probably keep some key mega-threads to mop up very minor discussion points, but work hard to try and create and allow some new threads about more important things a bit more often than we have over the years. With any luck, the mega-threads would then be less important, would sink down the page and in doing so discourage rota talk.
IT
itsrobert Founding member Granada North West Today
A great example of the new policy having a positive effect - I don't really follow the ITV Programming Thread that closely and, without it being split off into its own thread, I would otherwise have missed that Family Fortunes is coming back on Sunday. ITV has gained another viewer as a result!
BR
Brekkie Recently warned Wales Wales Today
It is baffling why more new threads aren't created, but there was a period a while back that when people did they were often folded into bigger topics by the mods, though to be fair I've not seen that happen for quite some time.
Turns out nobody had 2020 vision.
DO
dosxuk Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I’m not scared of creating new topics I’m scared of replying for fear of getting attacked for what I say. I’m not going to go into detail but some of the replies have been to my mind downright disgusting.

Freedom of opinion seems to be under attack by (and I hate this phrase but can’t think of an alternative) cancel culture.


Increasing just as much as people unfairly attacking people for what they post is people not wanting their posts / opinions to be challenged by anyone. I think this place mostly gets the balance right, and when people cross the line they do get dealt with by the moderation team. Freedom of opinion goes both ways - you have the freedom to hold your opinions and I have the freedom to have differing ones. It's as much your responsibility to accept those differing opinions of others as they should do of yours.

If people's replies disgust you, report those posts and let Asa + team deal with it. Don't let them put you off posting.
Ne1L C and London Lite gave kudos
NL
Ne1L C Recently warned Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Oh I’ve reported them for what I consider viable reasons and I’m sure I’ve been reported for what others consider viable reasons. It’s just a shame that it’s had to happen.
BF
BFGArmy Channel Channel Islands
I don't expect this to go down very well, but as someone who has enjoyed posting on this site for the past seven years, I wanted to put my two penneth in, for what it's worth.

I personally think there's a big difference between:

"Does anyone know who presented at 2pm today?" or "Why has Clive not done the 6pm shift for a while? Do you think [insert conjecture/speculation here]?"

and

"Alex Beresford is presenting GMB for only the second time ever later this week."

In the latter case, it is surely worthy of note? Not a four-page-long discussion, but it is, at least, giving a piece of information about the programme in question which will be interesting/surprising to some, and - I concede - not so interesting to others.

Let's face it, though - we're all on this site because we share a very niche (as far as the general population goes) interest in all things television and media.

Surely a passing reference to someone unexpected presenting a programme you enjoy watching (in the case of the above example) is exactly the kind of thing we can mention here? We sure as hell can't to our family and friends - I recently received the mother of all withering looks when I referred to ITV's newly designed promo graphics in the presence of my father - so it seems a shame that we're now being so prescriptive in terms of what users are 'allowed' to talk about with the few people who might actually be interested.


Indeed I think it's a fine line too.
The 'who presented at 2pm' type, 'Who was sat in chair 4 for Loose Women today' chat I think most agree is tedious but then there are some areas where it is not as clear-cut.

If there's a post say that refers to how good a presenter is (say Simon McCoy on Afternoon Live for example) is that allowed or not - it's talking about presenters but in a more general sense. During coverage of breaking news if a presenter does seem to be performing relatively poorly or doing a particularly outstanding job should posters feel free to point that out or does that stray overly into presenter/rota discussion?
And presenters are as much a part of the output as the schedule/graphics etc. Plust not everyone watches news channels at the same time so some posters might find out some 'new' presenter change after others have and so share that - it's not necessarily that poster's fault but is that frowned upon?

Plus I'd argue with some threads it's not necessarily the rota/presenter chat that's the tedious thing. Discussions can tend to go around in circles on here. It never feels like you're more than a week away on the Sky News thread from somebody mentioning wanting the graphics to change and there were pages and pages pre the Westminster studio relaunch of speculation about a new logo/graphics etc based on naff all evidence. After a while it can get annoying to read the exact same post again and again - and I'm as guilty as anybody.
And seeing post upon post about any minor tweak like a new/tweaked sting on GMB did seem to me a bit tedious (it's arguably more news if GMB don't change some bit of presentation every other week) but I'm happy for others to post.
I think maybe people do need to 'read the room' a bit sometimes before they post really.
Last edited by BFGArmy on 16 September 2020 11:36pm
NL
Ne1L C Recently warned Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Reading the room is a skill we can all utilise better but there are those who through no fault of their own can’t understand the rules. I’m not talking about the forum rules per se but the human beings behind the post.

Everything that we post on here is open to interpretation, reinterpretation and misinterpretation. That is par for the course and is evident on all forums.

Now I’m convinced that 98% of us on this forum are aware of this and accept that but the other 2% aren’t and for varying reasons.

1% of those as stated above cant instinctively grasp the protocol. I count myself amongst them. As some of you know I’m autistic and have great difficulty in comprehending the “rules”.

The other 1% are the a-holes who seem to have a perverse delight in either attacking views or shutting them down.

This has led to me getting quite a lot of stick on here and has made wonder why I bother posting.

The mega thread issue is being dealt with and hopefully it will be rectified soon.

I’m at risk of repeating my self so I will end with this and this is to all of us from mods to posters.

This forum is at risk of being trapped in a viscous circle if posters being slammed or unfairly slapped down for no reason at all and as I said earlier we are all human.

Respect and rules are important yes but is so is humanity. Lets have all three.
AN
all new Phil Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I think there’s been a bit of a loss of the wit and humour we all enjoyed in the earlier days that is linked to the growing obsession with who is presenting when. I’m fully aware that I may sometimes post things that are mildly in jest that may wind up some of the newer members, but to me that’s what it should be about - a bit of fun. I think people have lost the ability to challenge and respectfully disagree on things in recent years - not just here but everywhere.
NL
Ne1L C Recently warned Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
I think there’s been a bit of a loss of the wit and humour we all enjoyed in the earlier days that is linked to the growing obsession with who is presenting when. I’m fully aware that I may sometimes post things that are mildly in jest that may wind up some of the newer members, but to me that’s what it should be about - a bit of fun. I think people have lost the ability to challenge and respectfully disagree on things in recent years - not just here but everywhere.


Wit and humour is always welcome. We need a laugh more then ever right now. I agree with your analysis that the ability to challenge has been lost and replace with chide.
WH
Whataday Founding member Wales Wales Today
Asa posted:
Fundamentally there's a real reluctance to create new topics and I'm not entirely sure why. Someone could probably do a whole Ted talk on the psychology of it.


I'll put it succinctly and be entirely honest about how I feel here - I'd say it's as simple as: people don't want to have other members kick off at them for 'doing it wrong'.

I've seen - many times - someone set up a thread only to be given sarcastic comments in response along the lines of 'there's already a thread for this Rolling Eyes ', or 'why have you set up a new thread just to say this? Shocked'

Personally, if you'd asked me (before TV Forum's very own version of 'lockdown') about my view on creating a new thread, I'd've told you that I wouldn't dare open up a new thread for this very reason.


Funnily enough, over lockdown I've actually spoken to two separate people in 'the real world' who have recognised me from my avatar and told me they read TV Forum regularly. When asked why they didn't post, one said it didn't seem a particularly pleasant environment to contribute to, and the other said he wouldn't dare as several years ago he submitted a mock which was shouted down quite angrily.

Talking of which, I think the rating option in The Gallery is possibly one of the most silently toxic features of this forum. So many perfectly reasonable mocks are marked down as 'Terrible', to the extent I find myself rating them as Outstanding to try and counterbalance the hate.
NL
Ne1L C Recently warned Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Asa posted:
Fundamentally there's a real reluctance to create new topics and I'm not entirely sure why. Someone could probably do a whole Ted talk on the psychology of it.


I'll put it succinctly and be entirely honest about how I feel here - I'd say it's as simple as: people don't want to have other members kick off at them for 'doing it wrong'.

I've seen - many times - someone set up a thread only to be given sarcastic comments in response along the lines of 'there's already a thread for this Rolling Eyes ', or 'why have you set up a new thread just to say this? Shocked'

Personally, if you'd asked me (before TV Forum's very own version of 'lockdown') about my view on creating a new thread, I'd've told you that I wouldn't dare open up a new thread for this very reason.


Funnily enough, over lockdown I've actually spoken to two separate people in 'the real world' who have recognised me from my avatar and told me they read TV Forum regularly. When asked why they didn't post, one said it didn't seem a particularly pleasant environment to contribute to, and the other said he wouldn't dare as several years ago he submitted a mock which was shouted down quite angrily.

Talking of which, I think the rating option in The Gallery is possibly one of the most silently toxic features of this forum. So many perfectly reasonable mocks are marked down as 'Terrible', to the extent I find myself rating them as Outstanding to try and counterbalance the hate.


Spot on with the mocks. I stopped posting because it just felt that I had a bullseye on me. (Yes I admit I'm a crap mocker and repeatedly asked for help. It wasn't until Bail came along with his templates that the situation improved and yes I'm currently active on the forum but trying to give tips on encoding to Ballyboy)

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